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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]How inconvenient that there were maps of a "country that didn't exist until it was created by Stalin" all the way back in 1660.

[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Carte_d%27Ukranie_by_Beauplan%2C_Guillaume_Le_Vasseur_%2816..-1673%29%2C_cartographer.jpg[/img]

When the propaganda is so easily destroyed, it's time to stop using it.[/quote]

When your most recent argument is from 1660, it's time to stop using it too. [/quote]

So the funny part is that either way you slice it (pre-Stalin / post-Stalin), Ukraine existed as either a State or self-governing authority - unlike Russia.

Moscow was ruled by and paid tribute to the Mongols for a few hundred years and was not the heart of the Russian Empire.  Depending on the argument made, either Novogorod or Kiev is techncially the actual birthcity of the Rus empire.

Post-Stalin, Stalin's holodomor murdered millions in and around Ukraine through starvation when USSR troops denied food to starving people; providing the ability for Russians to re-populate Crimea, among other locations.

In other words, bad for Russian propaganda to reference maps.[/quote]

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