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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

I don't know -- if the stats are equal, I'm not sure why I can complain if the college wants to maximize donations by admitting legacies.  That is a rational strategy for a private institution dependent upon endowment.

I do get the point of "affirmative action of privilege" but have seen abstracts of Espenshade's work in which I believe he does conclude that the effect of legacy admissions are rather small (it's been a while though, I should re-read).  I believe he thinks the preferential admission of athletes has a more significant impact, am I remembering correctly?

I believe it is likely that the U.S. Supreme Court will rule affirmative action for under-represented minorities is unconstitutional this year (the case out of Texas).  (Professor Espenshade has stated, by the way, that even if colleges switch to affirmative action based on socioeconomic status, that will result in a drop in the number of African-Americans and Latinos at highly selective colleges because the pool of low income white applicants is fairly large too.)  If, indeed, the Supreme Court ends what we think of as "affirmative action," I do wonder if public pressure/outcry might force the Ivies and other highly selective schools to disclaim the legacy preference.[/quote]

If the Supreme Court rules against affirmative action, it will apply to public/state universities, but not to private universities. Private universities, like private K-12 schools in this area, will continue to be able to make admissions decisions on whatever criteria they want. I would think that, if they want to retail legacy preferences, they would tout their affirmative action policies even more strongly.

As for the impact of legacy preferences, I think "small" may be in the eye of the beholder. The Crimson article said it was something like 10% of the class. So out of a class of 2000 that would be 200 kids, which is fairly significant, and could affect the "atmosphere" (for lack of a better word) of the class if there is a higher percentage of old money legacies compared to high-achieving kids who are 1st or 2nd generation in their families to go to college. But it's also true that these 200 kids with preferences aren't going to change the admissions chances of a kid who is the pool of 30,000 applicants very much. So it depends what you're looking at.

(Just to be clear, I'm against legacy preference, but not against affirmative action when it helps low SES kids. Yes, I do think affirmative action is a bit broken when it helps kids with 1 minority grandparent our of 4 grandparents, and high SES kids, but I wholeheartedly support it when it's helping a minority from a disadvantaged background. And you could describe my family as old money and my DCs do have potential legacy preferences at two ivies. So I'm not really knee-jerk anything, I'm just reacting to what I think is fair vs. unfair.)[/quote]

I believe I've read that experts say that any private university that receives money, so that would include most of them and certainly the highly selective ones such as the Ivies, will have to abide by this Supreme Court ruling (just as Title IX, for example, applies to private universities).  The recent op-ed article in the New York Times by Professor Thomas Espenshade seems to take it as a given that we are not just talking about college admissions at  state schools:  http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/05/opinion/moving-beyond-affirmative-action.html?_r=0

This New York Times article also refers to an amicus brief filed by private colleges defending affirmative action in which the private colleges oppose being made to end affirmative action:  http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/07/opinion/sunday/colleges-value-diversity-but-will-the-court.html

So I do think it will apply to the Ivies, etc.  But I don't disagree with your points generally.  As Professor Espenshade and others have opined, this doesn't mean selective colleges will abandon efforts to promote diversity.  They will probably move towards a system of considering Socio-Economic Status/class, but as he also notes (in the first linked article), his study predicts this will lower the number of AA and Latino students at the most highly selective colleges significantly.  The "silver lining" he sees is that it may force even more focus on equalizing educational opportunities at the younger grades.  I have also heard African-American and Latino friends and colleagues say they won't miss assuming they are "products of Affirmative Action" and see that as a good outcome if affirmative action in college admission were to end.

Your point on "small" being in the eye of the beholder when it comes to legacy admissions is a good one, and to me, increases the chances that there will be enough public outcry about legacies that the Ivies and other highly selective schools may have to give up legacy admissions.  (Of course, could there be a loophole for students whose parents are big donors, on the grounds that is not "just" legacy status?  Maybe!  :wink: )

I've also wondered if the Fisher v. Texas effect (assuming they strike down affirmative action) may trickle down to private schools.  Clearly, legally private schools will not be covered (no acceptance of federal funds as is the case with private colleges).  But if the Supreme Court sets a new societal norm that, as Chief Justice Roberts likes to say, you can't fight discrimination with more discrimination (which is how he sees preferences based on race), will there be more pressure for independent schools to go to a Socio-economic/class based form of diversity in admissions?  That's easier for the wealthier schools with the bigger endowments, of course, than a system which gives some diversity consideration for race/ethnicity absent any consideration of parental wealth/occupation.

There will be a LOT of debate about affirmative action in education in 2013 and immediately beyond, I predict -- most at the college level but some perhaps trickling down to the private schools.

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