Reply to Schools near metro will get more housing without overcrowding relief

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Anyone remember Roger Berliners 'Keeping the Pace' forum some years back?  People before you have been advocating for more school capacity (and funding for that capacity building) for decades.  [b]All its gotten us[/b] is billions behind and unable to ever catch up.

By allowing and supporting never ending building, with no checks and balances for school capacity, you are contributing to making a bad problem worse.

A big part of the problem? With 160,000 students, the families without children in schools outnumber those with children in schools by a wide margin.  Not to mention, most students aren't old enough to vote and don't donate to political campaigns.

BTW, it is not a zero sum game: you can be for affordable housing and for more funds for school capacity at the same time[/quote]

That was in 2015. Since then, what have we gotten? A lot of new schools, new school buildings, and additions. Of course, a big chunk of that has been in Clarksburg. if you want to argue that Clarksburg was a bad idea, I won't disagree. However, people who live in Clarksburg presumably will disagree.[/quote]

DP.  [b]A more relevant observation would be whether we have more or less overcrowding since 2015.[/b]  Not on average, as that would not represent the higher need areas, but comparing the percentages, then and now, of students attending school in facilities that are above capacity (including those needing to use portables, as those diminish outdoor facilities like playgrounds) or that present some other capital deficit.  New schools are helpful, but only to those areas getting those schools (or nearby areas that get relief through associated boundary changes).[/quote]

Why? MCPS has spent a large amount of money on new schools, and most of the enrollment growth (except in Clarksburg, obviously) comes from students who live in [u]existing[/u] housing.[/quote]

Because [b]it would tell us if the capital outlays are keeping up with need or if more funding is required[/b].  If not, then the observation that there has been new construction & additions is largely irrelevant.  Those things, pretty much, are always happening to some degree or other each year, to cover population growth and/or aging facilities in need of replacement.

It is unclear why you mention growth from existing housing.  There will be those in the new, affordable housing that the bill aims to create who will have school-aged children in need of adequate (not overcrowded) school facilities, among other adequate public facilities.  Most of that would be in older areas where overcrowding is already a problem.

The issue, here, is allowing additional development without consideration for school capacities in the first place, and I'd ask that you support a paradigm to ensure those capacities are adequate.  Presuming from your post that you want the development, of course, that would mean ensuring coincident funding of school capital programs commemsurate to the need of the development area in question.

Advocate as you like as to who should [i]pay[/i] for that in order to achieve the social end of that development being affordable, but please don't try to unlink the two.  As previously mentioned, it would be terribly unjust to create housing that those with lower income can afford only to see residents, particularly children, then lacking public infrastructure, especially schools.[/quote]

We know they're not. MCPS says so, every year. Every year they issue a requested capital budget, and every year the County Council funds less than the requested amount. And that's not because of new housing.

As for the interests of kids in low-income families - they're already living here, in overcrowded housing, and they're already attending MCPS, potentially in overcrowded schools. Unless you think the new units would spontaneously generate new kids? [/quote]

That's what usually happens with new development. More families and more kids...[/quote]

Where are these families and kids living now?[/quote]

DP.  You're back on the clock after having to attend to Super Tuesday yesterday evening, we see.

Not all of those families and kids who would reside in new development, affordable units or otherwise, are currently residing in the affected communities/MoCo, and those moving in would create a need for additional/expanded public facilities, such as schools, to keep them providing adequate service levels to those communities.[/quote]

Do you have data about this? Does anyone? Or do you just have assumptions?[/quote]

Back at ya.  You aren't showing any data supporting the point of view you push with "earnest-truth-seeker" questioning, that new development [i]won't[/i] present an additional burden or that changes [i]can't/shouldn't[/i] be made to this bill that currently undermines ensurance of adequate public facilities for the very population it is intended to help.  At least some of us lay out our reasoning when advocating for changes to the bill so that encouraging affordable housing development wouldn't present, e.g., additional school overcrowding issues.  (Cue the next argumentative question from you in 3...2...1...)

The data, if it has been collected, would be with government offices or public research organizations.  Typically not easily accessed for analysis by the general public.  It would be great to have such at our fingertips, but not having it doesn't, by itself, invalidate the associated thoughts.[/quote]

Nah. If you're saying it will be a burden, you really ought to have data for it. How many additional, new MCPS students will live in these units? How many of the students who will live in these units are already MCPS students? It's not possible to come up with effective policy or legislative solutions without data to answer those questions.[/quote]

By the same token, those saying it wouldn't be a burden and are pushing for this bill as it exists, without ensuring adequate schools, would need to come up with data to support that, but that hasn't been offered.[/quote]

[b]No, that's not how it works.[/b] All I'm saying is: pass the housing bill now, then work on school capacity. You're saying: the housing bill must not be passed unless it has a plan for school capacity too. What do you need for a plan for school capacity? Data on how many new students will live in the housing.[/quote]

Double standard, much?

I'm saying the bill should have a plan for school capacity, yes, as the current language changes one of the few structures currently in place to help ensure that schools don't get overcrowded.  Given that municipalities like MoCo already fail in that regard, there's little hope of it not getting worse with even more housing capacity unless there is a reinstatement of the protection.

Governments/organizations plan for uncertain outcomes all the time.  Estimates, risk management strategies, etc.  Among those are expected student population yields from new housing, which are...wait for it...based on [i]data analyses[/i]![/quote]

Good stuff. So, do you know what they say about how many [u]new-to-MCPS[/u] students would be expected from the allowable housing?[/quote]

DP.  That’s being analyzed for this bill right? Right?  Seems irresponsible not to.[/quote]

Here's how you can look up information about the bill: https://mgaleg.maryland.gov/mgawebsite/Legislation/Details/hb0538?ys=2024RS&eType=EmailBlastContent&eId=fd5b93cd-6b90-446c-adeb-a24d9b43bd9e[/quote]

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