Reply to Did Christian homophobia come from a mistranslation of the Bible?

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Reply to "Did Christian homophobia come from a mistranslation of the Bible?"

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I don’t know how anyone could worship a god who created a subclass of people who loved in a certain way and then told them they were not allowed to love in that way or else they would go to hell. What kind of sicko mind would come up with such torture? To create some humans a certain way and then tell them they must deny themselves a crucial part of their humanity for their entire lives? Disgusting if it were so.

Luckily the god I worship would never be so cruel. [/quote]

No human is a subclass.

Have you ever lied? Stolen anything? Done anything that you knew was wrong, but did it anyway? I have. And it was sin. God didn’t create us to throw our hands up and say “oh well. Guess I will do whatever I want.” We know when we sin, we die like to admit it. It makes is human to want to sin, as we all are sinful, but with God’s grace and strength we recognize our misdeeds/sins and try to turn away from them and do better.

I don’t think denying the urge to sin is denying my humanity. If we didn’t deny ourselves, what would we be? Slaves to emotion and greed and anger.

If a married person sees someone and says they love that person and sleeps with them, yes they did wrong. They should deny themselves and be faithful ti their spouse. If they can’t do that they should not have gotten married. [/quote]

You’re comparing harming someone through stealing and lying to love between two people?  This is why people leave religion.

And it also sounds like you must be asexual because you seem to imply you’d be able to repress your sexuality easily if you were told to. [/quote]

NP
You are talking about love? Just calling it love doesn’t make it morally right.
How about we allow and celebrate love between adults and minor children? 
How about we allow and celebrate love between humans and animals. 
That’s love right? Not hurting anyone.

Don’t hide behind love to justify your sins.[/quote]
Animals and children can't consent. Why do you compare a consenting adult relationship with animal and child rape? How do two adult men or women in a relationship affect you at all?[/quote]

They can’t consent because we said so and made it our laws.
Children could also rise up and complain about these laws being unfair, insisting that they are mature enough to consent.

That won’t change anything because We believe that even though the child claims to be in love with an adult, we won’t condone these types of relationships because they are immoral.

Btw, I’m surprised you said children can’t consent to sex, but you and your lgbtq friends think these same children can consent to gender affirming surgery without parental consent. 
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What about a 12 year who was impregnated without consent? Is that immoral? [/quote]

Of course it is immoral.
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Under Jewish law and cultural tradition during the time Jesus walked the earth, it was considered moral. It was the way Jewish people traditionally treated 12 year old girls- they could be married and bear their husband’s child/children. That was how it was then. [/quote]

[b]So morality can change over time. [/b]

Today in 2023, a gay couple can be married and have a family. And even have sex (just as straight couples do). Nothing immoral about that. [/quote]

Bottom line. Morality changes over time. What was frowned upon thousands of years ago is ok today. And vice versa.

[/quote]
+1
I'm really confused about the poster who has now started posting torah quotes while this thread is about the bible. Do they want child marriage to come back? Or are they just proving the point about how fcked up "morality" was during jesus' time? It seems like the "morality" they want to go back to is child abuse, but oh noes, seeing two men holding hands will turn them gay![/quote]

People are claiming Christianity is pro-child rape, but the child rape in the bible took place in Jewish culture.
Jewish culture treated women, girls, and war captives terribly. [/quote]

Some Christians treat women horribly in 2024. They want to force them to give birth against their will. No better than rapists. 
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Women who have abortions choose to have sex and the baby is aborted because the mother elects to have an abortion. Over 95% of abortions are elective, which means the mother chooses to abort her baby. There are no medical issues with either the mother or baby’s health. The mother was not raped and is not a victim of incest. 
Those women have been forced to have sex and became pregnant. The vast, overwhelming majority of women are not forced by Christians or anyone else to have sex, they have sex voluntarily.

Christians do value the life of both the mother and child. Both are equally valuable.

Nobody can force an egg to be fertilized by a sperm. If Christians open mass forced IVF clinics and send police to round up women and have IVF at gunpoint, you can say Christians force women to have babies.

Are women unaware that sex may result in pregnancy? 
The pregnancy occurred because a woman chose to have sex. A baby should not die because mom had sex.
[img] <a href="https://ibb.co/KV7FJsf"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/HGYnjPb/IMG-8353.webp[/img][/quote]

I do t think this is factual.

Data by women’s  reproductive rights groups that is based on credible research is very different. [/quote]

Ok, link to the facts.[/quote]

I think it is highly misleading  to claim that > 95% of abortions are elective; The majority were obtained by women who were in their twenties, low-income, women of color, unmarried and already had at least one child.

If these women have existing children to feed and no one else to help raise their children, they may not even be able to afford being pregnant. Why are you just blaming women for having sex?

I am a married Christian  and would never have an abortion myself. However, [b]it is not my place, or anyone’s place, to make reproductive decisions for other women.  It is not pro life or ethical to force poor women to have children they cannot afford to bring up with decent qualities of life This is a decision that should be made by women, their partners if they are in committed relationships and their doctors. [/b]

Ironically, Rates of abortion are much higher in countries where abortion is illegal.
No one wants to get abortions for fun. It must be a terrible decision to make. But sometimes it is the lesser of different evils.

https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/key-facts-on-abortion-in-the-united-states/#Who-gets-abortions

In 2021, women across a range of age groups, socioeconomic status, and racial and ethnic backgrounds obtained abortions, but the majority were obtained by women who were in their twenties, low-income, and women of color.
* 		Women in their twenties accounted for more than half (57%) of abortions. Nearly one-third (31%) were among women in their thirties and a small share were among women in their 40s (4%) and teens (8%).
* 		Seven in ten abortion patients were of women of color. Black women comprised 42% of abortion recipients, White women 30% , Hispanic women 22%, and 7% women of other races/ethnicities.
* 		Many women who sought abortions have children. More than six in 10 (61%) abortion patients in 2021 had at least one previous birth.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/01/11/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-u-s-2/

US Abortion statistics 
https://abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/

In 2004, the Guttmacher Institute anonymously surveyed 1,209 post-abortive women from nine different abortion clinics across the country. Of the women surveyed, 957 provided a main reason for having an abortion. This table lists each reason and the percentage of respondents who chose it.
Percentage	Reason
<0.5%	Victim of rape
3%	Fetal health problems
4%	Physical health problems
4%	Would interfere with education or career
7%	Not mature enough to raise a child
8%	Don't want to be a single mother
19%	Done having children
23%	Can't afford a baby
25%	Not ready for a child
6%	Other

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Exactly. Stay in your lane, misogynists. 
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