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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Statistically, I won’t need a hip replacement. That’s American pastime. You don’t like stairs or walking and there we have it.

Anyway, what are you arguing about?

London is amazing. [/quote]

Statistically, it’s the stairs and walking (and even more actual athletic endeavors) that leads you to have a hip replacement.  And old age.  If you live to a certain age and were even just a little bit active you’ll need to get joints replaced to maintain that level of activity.

The UK definitely gets in the way.  I’d hate to rely on the NHS for anything other than emergency care.

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luckily you dont have to. the wonder of it is that [b]the NHS is there so no one has to die or suffer because they can't afford healthcare[/b], the mark of a civilized society, but you can also have private insurance. [/quote]

This is a liberal American’s fantasy.  The NHS sucks if you’re used to BCBS PPO or equivalent, or Medicare.  It’s more along the lines of Medicaid with forced provider participation.
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also i lived in london for 30 years so it's not a liberal americans fantasy.[/quote]

Nope- we have a family member who married a UK citizen and they moved there.  New spouse got cancer a few years later and had excellent care there, especially and including the end of life palliative care, which included things like delivering a hospital bed to their home and other medical equipment so the spouse could continue living at home.  That's the benefit of a fully integrated system- it's of course much much cheaper to have a person stay at home and not use hospital services, but doing things like getting an insurance company in the US to cover a hospital bed would make you pull your hair out and probably take months to get approved.  And then of course after the spouse died they have a service to come and pick up the bed and equipment- because they have a fully integrated system that does this sort of thing all the time.  This is all within the last 10 years BTW, so pretty recent, not some fantasy of how things used to be.

Also read Rob Delaney's memoir about his son's cancer and the amazing care he got through NHS.  Of course it's not perfect but I am willing to bet you just haven't had anything complex you have had to deal with an insurance company on before.  Once you go through that once or twice you realize how ridiculous our system is. There's a reason every other industrialized country has a national health care system, and they spend on average half of what we do on health care (as percent of GDP) and have longer average lifetimes, to boot. The only people for whom the US system works better is mostly healthy rich people.[/quote]

I'm glad your family member had a good experience with cancer care in the UK, but their statistics for meeting treatment deadlines are terrible and their survival rates are lower than the US.

If you add up the timeline below, the *targets* are diagnosis within 28 days of an [u]urgent[/u] referral, 62 days for referral to treatment, and 31 days for a treatment plan. And they aren't meeting those targets. That doesn't even address getting the actual treatment, which, according to the comments in the article below is a major problem.  People waiting 6 months or more for treatment after they have a treatment plan.

Further, the life expectancy statistics include factors like auto accidents, so it can't all be attributed to health care.

https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2024/02/08/cancer-waiting-times-latest-updates-and-analysis/

The Faster Diagnosis Standard: Target Missed

74.2% of people were diagnosed, or had cancer ruled out, within 28 days of an urgent referral in December 2023. The target is 75% and has never been met since its introduction in October 2021.

The 62-day referral to treatment standard: Target Missed

Only 65.9% of people in England received their diagnosis and started their first treatment within 2 months (or 62 days) of an urgent referral* in December 2023. The target is 85%.

The 31-day decision to treat standard: Target Missed

91.1% of people started treatment** within 31 days of doctors deciding a treatment plan in December 2023. The target is 96%.

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1. either you have comparative data or you have no data. 
2. your argument is fundamentally very dumb because it's like if you needed to travel 50 miles and had no car and i said here's a maserati and here's a 2010 kia sorrento; the maserati is $1k a month and the kia is free - and you said 'the kia sorrento didn't go as fast as the maserati'. I mean - duh. [/quote]

1.  There is lots of data. I just didn't bother to go searching, but since you don't seem to be able to operate the internet, here you go.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/cancer-survival-rates-by-country

US 
Breast. 88.6%
Stomach  29.1%
Lung 18.7%
Prostate 97.2%

UK
Breast 81%
Stomach 18.5%
Lung 9.6%
Prostate 83.2%

Which country has the best cancer survival rate?

The country with the highest cancer survival rate varies depending on the type of cancer, but those in the US, Australia, New Zealand, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden have the best odds of beating cancer, according to the CONCORD-3 report.

https://news.yale.edu/2018/05/01/disparities-found-lung-cancer-care-survival-us-versus-england

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/uk-cancer-survival-rates-bottom-world-league-table-a9101916.html

2. In your analogy, the Kia is free, but you're going to die while waiting for one so you can drive to the hospital for treatment.

This article is paywalled, but it focuses on the fact that survival rates for cancer in the UK are 15 years behind other countries because of a lack of access to chemotherapy and radiation treatment.  Meanwhile, advanced immunotherapy treatments are becoming standard in the US.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/26/uk-cancer-survival-rates-lag-15-years-countries-chemo/
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