Reply to Which universities have gone DOWN in stature over the years?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]W&M is an obvious answer.

Ranking drop from 32 -&gt; 38.
Acceptance rate went from 33% to 42%, higher than large publics like UT Austin and UMD. While large publics like Berkeley are reaching single-digit acceptance rates, W&M's is increasing.

Student enrollment has increased.

Their law school has gone completely downhill.

W&M used to be more difficult to get into than UVA, due to a smaller number seats. It had higher SAT scores than UVA, the highest among publics comparable to Berkley. It was compared to the smaller Ivies like Dartmouth/Brown and SLACs like Swarthmore. It attracted out-of-staters and wealthy internationals that would never consider a large public for OOS tuition, but would consider W&M due to the size and feel.

Nowadays, UVA is far more tougher to get in, [b]has far higher SAT scores[/b] and far great national and international reach.[/quote]

Per most recent CDS:

UVA 25th/75th percentile SAT - 1330-1490
W&M 25th/75th percentile SAT - 1360-1520

both have average GPAs of 4.3.

Perhaps W&M’s higher acceptance rate is a function of some other factor other than the caliber of students they attract.  Maybe since UVA and has more prominent sports and a better college town and is bigger it appeals to more kids who apply that are more borderline. W&M is bit more niche in that it a very small public, so more like a SLAC. Williamsburg is pretty sleepy too.

Maybe, just maybe, acceptance rate is not a good indication of how good a school is at any rate.[/quote]

Seen so many "W&M is going downhill posts", no, it just dosen't fit into the two boxes that do well in rankings these days - large publics with lots of research and prestigious expensive privates. Applications are self selecting and W&M as a public does need to expand their social life and STEM to compete. Making it like Hopkins or Swarthmore like a PP suggested is unrealistic. W&M will stay around where it is and not drop further. Also, anyone with a brain knows its a much more rigorous undergrad education then say, U of F, which is "ranked higher". [/quote]

And turning it into a large public university makes sense, where it would be clearly second-fiddle to UVA & VT?

W&M has not been investing in improving STEM or academics in general. They have been focusing on cosmetic changes. That's the problem that I'm highlighting.

[b]W&M couldn't turn into Hopkins, but why could it not be a rigorous undergraduate-focused school like Swarthmore or Tufts, as it used to be?[/b]

W&M dropped from 32 to 40 in a few years, now it is at 38 tied with Georgia Tech, UC Davis and UT Austin, all schools rising in popularity and student quality. It's followed by Boston University, Case Western and Tulane, again all schools rising in popularity and student quality.

All these schools other than UC Davis are in major US cities, and there's a clear trend towards universities located in cities.

Why exactly would you think these schools wouldn't surpass W&M in the ranking, which clearly means W&M would fall further?[/quote]

It still absolutely is--it's a rigorous undergraduate focused school.  It's just put in the rankings as a "research university" because it is technically a doctoral granting institution even though its grad programs are very limited.  But W&M is still attracting top-notch students, ranked among the very top in undergraduate education, has excellent career and grad school outcomes, and has a very high ROI.  It's just a weird school in its structure--it's public not private, LAC like but a little larger than most, undergraduate focused with a handful of grad programs.  So it falls between the cracks in the rankings--and still does great.  I think it has zero issues with academic caliber--it's very strong.  I think it's a little less popular than UVA because a) it's more expensive and b) it's in a sedate tourist town.[/quote]

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