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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous] [quote]

I am a different PP, but one of the ones you questioned earlier. I think methadone / suboxone can be beneficial if used properly - it seems again like it comes down to whether the person WANTS to get better. I am wondering why you feel that that point isn't valid. I have a unique POV in that I know several former addicts - trust me, if they don't want to get and stay clean, they won't. Why do you think kids get shipped out to intensive rehabs and are cured of all physical dependence, then come back nd replaces 6 months later? Rinse and repeat. If the internal motivation and sense of personal responsibility isn't there, they will turn to it again, absolutely. My brother, who has been clean for 8 years, told me when he hears someone talking about it now he still feels a momentary internal urge to use...the high is just THAT good. When it came to finally getting clean, he had to make that conscious choice himself...and then he had to commit himself to the hard work of staying there. And he actually did use suboxone - he started under the care of a doctor. He said weed helped him get through the toughest initial days. But underlying everything was that he finally decided he wanted to do it[/quote]

Argh. Once again, I never said there's no role for motivation and self-control.  Obviously, there is.  It's just not as simplistic as "the addict has to WANT to change."  It's much more complicated than that.  You also have to have the resources to change (medical support, social support, a place to live, maybe a job to look forward to).  And sometimes the addict needs support even to be motivated to change in the first place.  And the self-control needed to resist urges needs to be learned; it's not necessarily an intrinsic trait.  Also, the whole point of methadone and suboxone is that they REDUCE the urge to use.  Hence, these medications actually reduce the need for willpower and personal responsibility to recover.  Which is a good thing, because drug addiction undermines the ability to use willpower.

[b]PP insisting on "personal responsibility" is really just making an argument that there should be no taxpayer funded addiction treatment.  
[/b]

[/quote]

I'm one of those PP and that's not what I'm arguing.  I repeat over and over that just because addicts bear personal responsibility doesn't mean they don't deserve help or that you shouldn't help them.  Once again, it's just unbelievable that something as simple as "personal responsibility" for taking recreational drugs is as controversial as it is to people like you. [/quote]

so what's your point? do you disagree that other extrinsic factors also contribute to addiction? [/quote]

Go back and reread the thread.  Your question is asinine as you have repeatedly purposefully missed my point in your pursuit to remove choice, responsibility from and to infantilize addicts.  To what purpose, I don't know.  I suspect it's something personal.[/quote]

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