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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]       NP here.  Thank you 16:59 for reporting the statistics - very informative.   There is no doubt there are many qualified applicants from many racial, ethnic, socio-economic, religious, international and other unique backgrounds.  I think the frustration often seen on these boards from parents of self-described otherwise unhooked white students is that the within the overall elite group of students applying to these colleges from which admissions committees look to find standouts, being of any race other than white (or probably Asian these days because of the high number of applicants) "counts" as one standout factor. I don't believe that is seriously in question, yet I do believe that is exactly the point that aggravates some unhooked parents.  Race will not get anyone into a highly selective school, but it is a plus factor if you are an underrepresented minority -- including AA -- and not if you are white.

In a world where white people - as if there is some monolithic group like that -- had all the breaks and advantages  by a huge margin over people of color (as if that too is a monolithic group), this may be -- or at least in years past by may have been -- a rationale tool to consider in admissions.  There are many aspects of an application a student can control or at least influence - grades, test scores, ECs, etc, and some they cannot -- parental socio-economic status, race, disabilities, etc.  I think for many people the consideration of factors unrelated to student effort seems unfair (note a student born into poverty, a poor school system, etc. who outperforms his/her peers to overcome the odds would be a student recognized for effort).   At the same time, schools are committed to diversity as an inherent good itself.  In a world of "all other things equal" taking factors into account a student does not control, such as race, to achieve another goal of diversity, is something that I believe would draw relatively few objections from majority/non-diverse groups (if there really is such a thing - but for simplicity, we'll call them white people).  The perceived problem is that admissions decisions sometimes are made in favor of minority applicants when all other things are significantly unequal in terms of test scores, GPA, etc.   This may or may not be true.  But I believe most schools release no such detailed statistics about the issue so this feeds skepticism.

Holistic admissions has its benefits, but transparency is not one of them. I was a strong proponent of affirmative action in the 1970s and 1980s, [b]but have come to conclude that at this point the societal benefits of taking race into account in college admissions in any instance other than when "all other things are essentially equal" in order to achieve diversity objectives are outweighed by the societal negative consequences. [/b] Granted, defining what "essentially equal" is will be subject to wide interpretation, but as has been pointed out elsewhere, for example, few people would seriously question that a 50 point difference in SAT scores, for example, is meaningful but those same people may view a 200 point difference as material.  But absent transparency, it seems inevitable  that many students of color will often feel on college campuses that many of their white peers question their  right to be on campus, their academic prowess, etc.  and -- as seen in the past year -- this is one of many concerns students of color have voiced on many college campuses.  Diversity does have important benefits, but good policy must take into account the means of achieving it is just as important as the ends.
  [/quote]

But if 17:09's stats are correct (I have no idea where they came from), then the biggest impact of ignoring race in admissions decisions will be a very sharp decline in the number of black students at elite colleges. Are you, former supporter of affirmative action, okay with that? Is the change in "means of achieving" worth that particular end?

I find your assumption that few people would think a 50-point difference in SAT scores is meaningful to be very quaint.

I'm not in any way associated with Harvard, nor do I harbor any hope to be. I am not in a position to benefit from affirmative action, nor are my children. So I've got no particular fish to fry here. But honestly, all this protestation about the evils of affirmative action? It seems like people protest just a bit too much. I don't believe for one minute this is about relieving students of color from the burden of having white peers question their competency.[/quote]

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