Reply to Maret/GDS US - pressure cooker or more laid back but still academically rigorous?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Many privates chools don't even have AP classes any more. I'm surprised GDS still teaches to a standardized test. [/quote]

That's like saying many good colleges don't require the SATs.  All of the good schools that emphasize academics like the Big 3 here, Exeter, Andover, TJ, etc offer APs bc there is a demand for them.  You can save a lot of tuition if the college will give credit and it's a way to show that the kid is a more than capable student.[/quote]

Fact Check: Exeter doesn't have AP clasess. [/quote]

Not per se but they have classes on the level so that you can get a "5" on the APs.[/quote]

There is a difference between teaching to an AP test and teaching at such a high level that successful students score a 5. Lot's of progessive schools (why I'm surprised GDS still has AP humanities classes) teach at such high levels that students do well without bowing to the AP curriculum. This is nothing new.  Some of the most well-known schools in the nation began phasing out classes based on AP curriculum more than 10 years ago.  AP is still going  strong with math and science but the most elite math and science students are  working at a level far above the testing range of the AP exams. My personal view is that AP classes are an insurance policy for diligent students who may have weak teachers - teachers who need the support of a standardized curriculum.[/quote]

When I went to GDS (25 years ago) there were no AP classes - at least in liberal arts subjects.  That being said, I took 4 AP exams - Latin, English, US History, and European (or something close) history).  I think I also took Biology. I got 5's in all of them and so did most of my friends - the AP exams seemed easy given the preparation we had.

I think the real value of AP scores now at established private high schools like GDS lies in the ability to place out (in college) of introductory language courses, or math courses like Calculus, and science courses like whatever AP Chem, Physics, and Biology are called now at college.  At most Ivy League schools, they will not allow you to enter as a sophomore or take fewer classes for graduation, but at other institutions, the ability to graduate in 3 years due to high scores on AP exams saves a year of tuition and should not be taken lightly.  But at places like MIT, you can just keep continuing at your advanced pace without actually having to have been there to get to that initial "place out" level - and this is a GREAT thing............

At this time, the math landscape at elite high schools has changed significantly.  In my day, no one was teaching anything post Calculus at GDS.  We just sent the STEM gifted kids off to college early.  My understanding is that now both at GDS and STA (and probably other places), they are offering classes above Calculus for which there are no APs - because they are indisputably college courses, like multilinear equations (cut me some slack here on the names of the classes please, but they do exist).  This is much better than sending 10th graders off to the University of Chicago and is a really positive development, but I am not sure any college would just take any school's word for it that a student does not need to take Calculus in college without that 4 or 5 on their transcript.  So while I don't see why the AP title for the course is necessary (I do not remember taking a single "AP course," just the AP exams), I do see the intrinsic value of taking and scoring highly on the AP exams so one does not have to retake a bunch of courses in college.

The other way I see the "AP course label" being useful for established schools is that it sends a message that the course will be more rigorous, that the expectations will be higher.  At GDS back in my day not only were there no "AP classes," there were also no "honors" classes - no tracking of any kind, except when you decided you did not want to take Latin for all 4 years of high school, or move on to Trig, Pre-Calculus and Calculus.  So perhaps this is their way of separating people without doing it by using such a loaded term as "honors."  Just speculation on my part, but it would make sense to me given the GDS I know.

In terms of other schools, public schools, and newly established charter schools, we all know why the AP exams are critical - to measure the caliber of the school and the student and college readiness.  One thing we are told to ask as alumni interviewers when interviewing students from the Questbridge Program (a program that apparently culls out promising applicants with limited financial resources who may not have guidance counselors or anyone to really help them, and helps them apply to colleges and for financial aid) is how many AP courses are offered at their high schools (some schools offer as few as 4), and of those, how many the students took......  And that can be the beginning of some very interesting conversations in my experience.

But especially if your child is in the 3rd or 4th graduating class of one of these Charter schools here in DC, even if the school is a highly ranked chain like BASIS, no college is going to believe absent evidence that they can provide the same kind of education here that they have in Arizona.  So for schools like that, and at schools like Wilson, where the colleges have to separate the wheat from the chaff, AP scores become very important.  I am still not sure that AP exams are all that much tougher now than they were in the mid 80s when I took them - my oldest child is just starting the process - but I do know that at schools that are public or charter (not GDS), the students need to be given the material to score highly on the exam, and since the exam is supposed to measure the knowledge a student needs to go to the next level in college, in this particular situation, I see nothing wrong with "teaching to the test" especially since at Charters there are constantly revolving teachers and no set curriculum sometimes.  What better alternative than a curriculum that focuses on getting a 4 or 5 on the AP exam?  This is not like teaching to the DC CAS.  These are real subjects, this is real knowledge.  While I admire the fact that the College Board has stated that they are revising the APs to measure critical thinking skills more than mere rote memorization, and think that can only help, the fund of knowledge has to be there in the first place.  So for these schools, it is about proving that they (or their students in spite of them) can actually educate at a college level.

And that is a CRITICAL milestone in the progress of any DC public or charter school.  I understand that at Wilson anyone can sign up for AP classes, which is why their overall AP scores are so low.  At BASIS, students are required to take 6 APs for graduation, but the timing of when these exams are taken depends on what group the child is in - if they are in accelerated math they will take AP Calculus AB in 8th, accelerated science, AP Chemistry in 9th - both of those tracks are selective admission.  Math is determined by a placement exam, and the LEAP (fast track science) requires grades, a rec from the teacher teaching the class, and acceptance from the teacher who will be teaching the AP class...........  So for schools that are not well established private schools, the APs serve a much more critical and valuable function.  That being said, I cannot imagine any of my friends who graduated early wanting to go off to college or university and take Calculus over again or basic Bio, Chem and Physics.  And high scores on APs avoid this for everyone - whether or not they get actual "college credit," can save money, graduate early.  It avoids these kids having to spin their wheels and waste their time, and in my experience they have already done enough of that by the time that they get to college - so I am very glad that both in private and public schools we are now offering them the opportunity to stay in high school longer, because while the intellectual stimulation they craved was only available at colleges at that time, that is no longer true now, and the adjustment was really tough, and not everyone survived.[/quote]

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