Reply to Another reason why labeling students as being gifted is counterproductive

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

I may be wrong, but my understanding of "gifted" testing is that it attempts to measure ability that is different than a high level of subject matter competency.  If I am correct about that, then it's the test that rubs a lot of people the wrong way.  I'll bet if students were placed in classes based on their subject matter performance, most folks would not have a problem with it.

IQ tests are a good comparable to our problem: Let's say someone scored a 140 on an IQ test and gets an "A" grade in AP History, while someone who scored a 110 on the IQ test could achieve the same "A" grade as the 140 in an the AP History class.  From the perspective of the educator, both students should be in the History class, but if a barrier to entry was "giftedness," the 110 IQ would not be in the class.  That disconnect strikes a lot of people as unfair, and hence they question the appropriateness of the "giftedness" discussion in public education.[/quote]

If an IQ 140 student and and IQ 110 student are both getting an A in a class, it is pretty obvious that the class is much too easy for the 140 IQ student or the grades are not meaningfully correlated to relative performance.  I mean, if we can't agree on that we're not even speaking the same language here.  [/quote]

Yeah, then we ARE seeking different goals; but if an AP History class is too easy for the hypothetical high-performing student, then your goal should not to be found in a public school system.  What you want is "Professor Xavier's School for Gifted Children."  Perhaps as a matter of public policy a public-private charter could be established for such rare and gifted children, but I wouldn't want much of my public dollar devoted to it.  There are probably plenty of private schools that would scholarship-in such little geniuses; but even so, the private school wouldn't have the appropriate classes to stretch out those kids, either.

FYI:  I'm sure there are plenty of real 110-IQ kids who get A's in a public school AP history course.  The hypo is not far-fetched.[/quote]

I think you are missing my point.  You suggested that grades are a good proxy for subject-matter performance and that most people would not object to that as a method for assigning students by ability, but offered a hypothetical that seems to me to cut the other way.  If grades are not distinguishing between the performance of a 110 and 140 IQ student, they aren't a useful measure of "subject matter competency" that could assist in placing students in classes by ability.   I mean, people who are opposed to ability grouping should just say so (as you did).  That makes way more sense than pretending to do so.

I don't understand why you think the very gifted students should not have their needs met in a public school system to the extent possible.  I don't think it would take much incremental money at all to improve the situation just by more explicitly grouping the students by ability and letting them move at their own pace.  The arguments against that are political, not economic.  [/quote]

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