Reply to What about this as a breach of trust?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]What do you think.  Breach of trust? Or perhaps more importantly, is it time to go?  I would like to give it one last shot in couples therapy, but my spouse said this issue is not open for discussion with the therapist. Period.

Sorry in advance for typos and length. I just feel numb by this exchange. Just happened tonight. Any and all thoughts welcomed.[/quote]

Whoa, lady...where to start...

First, no, it's not a breach of trust, or rather: it is a violation but ordinarily wouldn't matter since therapy sessions are generally completely confidential (I don't believe marijuana use is a mandatory reporter situation), and ordinarily your individual therapist would not have a meeting with your husband "in preparation for couples therapy".  Your therapist might meet with him, with your permission, to discuss your therapy and your condition.  I think your therapist is way out on the ethical edge here - so if there's a breach, it's there.  Yes, many many many people find a spouse, sibling, child, parent going to therapy deeply threatening because they know the client is "talking about them".  The issue here is your therapist talking to him about it and inserting themselves into this.  Really sketchy.  Of course, some therapists take sides.

You sound like you have major issues; it's possible your husband is toking up like a fiend because he's self-medicating.  Every hardcore pot smoker ("addict") I've ever seen is self-medicating (just like you taking lexapro) - it's entirely possible that trying to live with you is driving him to this - remove you from his life, maybe he comes back down.  The inverse is also possible.  Both things are possible (likely).

I'd say, regardless of the blame game, that the two of you are in an awful, toxic dance.  I'd say it's time to split up.  I also say Pot is way preferable to Lexapro.  [/quote]

Hmmm.  Well, I trust my therapist. The session was not just to discuss my therapy and progress - we already did a session like that.  I don't sense that she is taking sides per se. But I see how it could be viewed that way. It was a risky move to mention it without me there.  And he isn't the patient - I am. That said, she and I asked if he would be willing to work in couples therapy -- he said yes.  So I don't know once you say that you are good with doing couples work what the ethical edge is here that you are talking about. [/quote]

No, I don't think so - it's pretty much unethical for her to have you as the patient and then start couples therapy with both of you. She should have referred you both to a different therapist for the couples therapy.  That's pretty cut-and-dried.  After however many sessions with you alone, she's got a highly biased view of him.  There is nothing wrong with you all doing couples therapy with a different therapist and her continuing to see her as your patient.  This is exactly what I'm talking about, to a T.

[quote]But yes, this approach had/has the potential to have backfired.[/quote}

Well, this isn't just a backfire, it's a flat out ambush.  I'm not surprised he feels highly violated, whether or not it's a "breach" for you to discuss his substance use/abuse in your sessions with her.  and she's taking on your role or becoming your advocate and delivering your ultimatums for you.

[quote]That said, I've tried everything else so this is my last effort.[/quote]

Fine, just leave.  Tell him yourself you're done, it's no longer tolerable and you're leaving.  Separate.  Perhaps that will deliver the wakeup call he needs to stop toking up constantly, and perhaps you all can reconcile.

[quote]It's not that I'm not ready to talk to him about this issue - we have talked about this issue.  At length.  But my needs/concerns are dismissed as "paranoid", "Gestapo" and out of line because I knew he was a heavy smoker before we got married.  And I've always caved because it has been presented as a non-starter -- he will not change.[/quote]

Yeah, well honestly, not a lot of sympathy here for your position: you admit you knew full well exactly who he is and what his substance use patterns were before you married him...and yet you did it anyway.  Either you expected him to change from the beginning and didn't really accept him (in which case, nobody to blame but yourself) or you've decided that now that you can't change him, you're gonna call in the therapist to arm-twist him for you.  Cowardly and manipulative, IMO.  I'm reminded of the old saw "men marry expecting their wives to never change, and women marry expecting to change their husbands".

I'm not a toker (used to be 20 years ago), and I'm not saying you need to stay in a situation you've decided you can't tolerate.  If being around him is bad for your well-being, then you have to leave.  Good for you. Do it.  Own it.  Say your feelings about the smoking have changed.  Don't make it his fault (which is what this is about).  Believe me, it will feel better to own the decision yourself.

[quote]BTW, he was smoking at these levels before we married (though the obsession around it has increased since then in that it is simply all he talks about these days - growing acceptance of pot as a recreational drug only adds fuel to that fire).  So I don't think I'm the reason for the self-medication -- though, admittedly, I'm no angel and certainly have not always been easy to be married to.[/quote]

Look, I have had an up close and personal look at two people who had serious issues, which they attempted to solve by toking up incessantly.  One was a friend/acquaintance (no longer because he really was falling apart and just not cool to be around - and I used to toke up with him), and the other is a cousin, who has real and significant mental health issues, which he attempts to address with weed.  Both are in a downhill spiral (well, I have no idea what happened to the one I lost touch with in the mid-90s).   I'm not defending becoming a stoner and I don't think you should have to put up with it if you don't want to.

My point wasn't so much to blame you except to get you jarred out of this blame/control mode.  I have no doubt that between children and a spouse who had a breakdown, he's got a lot of external stress...and probably feels shitty about being unemployed(un-employable?).  Those aren't excuses to spend all day stoned, but drop the stone-throwing blame game.  Whether or not it's food, excercise, reading, movie watching (internet forum posting), people will engage in all sorts of escapist activities and will also engage in all sorts of rationalizations.  It's hardly the fault of recreational legalization (does legal booze create alcoholics?)

[quote]Anyway, for me Lexapro is preferable to pot because I don't have any bad side effects, it is temporary, and it is legal.[/quote]

I'm glad it works for you - it does have side effects and can be much more difficult to withdraw from than pot. However, it is legal.

What it looks to me like your therapist is doing is setting up a divorce where you get a slam dunk on custody, and nudging you in that direction.  While what you told your therapist may not qualify as a mandatory reporter violation, it certainly paints him into the characteristics of being a neglectful parent.[/quote]

Op here again - a lot to unpack here. Won't do a point by point, but there's a theme about my need to control and blame.  I appreciate you keeping me honest there - I am really trying to not come from that place and its hard to convey a full meaning in an online post.  It isn't about blame or changing/improving an individual person - it's about changing/improving our current dynamic given where we are today.  Which, frankly, is different than we were 10 years ago when we first met or 6 years ago when we got married and then had our first child within the first two years after. I am a mother now - a same person to the core, but have different roles, responsibilities, perspectives. I'm also older...and would like to say wiser, but maybe not.  And you know what, he's gone through changes too.  He's evolved and changed in many ways since we first met and married. I don't define myself by use of substances (by the way, I have been a recreational lot user myself in the past and come from a part of the country where it is acceptable and now legal - and I'm fully behind recreational use and legalization).  And no one has given any ultimatums - not me, not my therapist on my behalf.  When he said i told you don't make me choose, that wasn't because I had said you have to choose. It was the response to me saying I'm uncomfortable with the current state and my therapist confirming that im feeling discomfort in that session. So we need to talk about what will work - and what won't. The immediate response though that it wasn't on the table for discussion at therapy really threw me for a loop but I think was a natural reaction given the way the issue was raised. So I'll keep trying to talk to him - in therapy or alone or in some other facilitated way. But can't separate or leave just yet. You are right - I have major issues.[/quote]

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