Reply to How do you relate Faith vs. Grace to experiences in your life?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]For a long time I was a non-believer -- I couldn't believe anyone really believed that God stuff.  Now I have come to accept that they really believe it just as throughly as I believe that it makes no sense.

Facts cannot convince people one way or the other, since the same facts that convince us non-believers that God is imaginary convince the believers of the absolute truth of God.  What we see and how we interpret it depends on our basic understanding of reality.  For some, it is manifest that God exists, for others, the opposite.

It is good to try to understand each other, but trying to convince each other is more likely to have negative results.[/quote]

What I see here is not non-believers trying to convince believers, but non-believers being straightforward about their point of view -- something that's often hard face to face - especially in this society where it's perfectly socially acceptable to talk about God and Jesus as if they are real people who are doing magic tricks -- miracles, that is  -- for people who have faith in them.  But it's not so acceptable to express lack of belief in miracle, the supernatural or Jesus.

And I'm pretty sure talking about it does change some people's minds -- because a lot of non-believers were once believers -- so obviously minds can change.  And maybe not always  the minds of the people talking back and forth, but some of the people listening in.  And maybe not now, but later.[/quote]

I see it the opposite. It makes non believers quite uncomfortable which is why they come into a thread about faith and grace and start talking about imaginary friends and making other atheistic comments that aren't really related to the thread topic. they come across to me as very uncomfortable with people having positive experiences and to deal with that discomfort they put down the beliefs of others. Minds can change in both directions. Atheists become Christians and vice versa. however the definition of Christian means many things to many people whereas atheists have a much tighter definition of their beliefs. [/quote]

if a tighter definition means fact-based, then I agree.  I also agree that the definition of Christian -- and many other religions -- can mean many things, because people just make things up to suit themselves.  Some people believe in heaven but not hell.  They think they'll go to heaven because they believe but  their atheist friends will just die.    Others believe very firmly in heaven and hell. There's all kinds of individualized beliefs out there, despite the many rules that religion applies.

Please consider that non-believers refer to God as an imaginary friend, because that's just what he seems like - invisible and reflects your own feelings - provides company when no one else is around.  makes you feel special.  Minds can change in both directions, but the trend is religious to non-religious as people learn more about science and how religions came to be.  Churches are emptying out and fewer parents are raising their kids with religion.[/quote]

Perhaps not relevant, but remember that just because religious people may appear to you to be "making things up to suit themselves," that does not mean that they are correctly following the word of God, which is in and of itself quite clear with many facts.[/quote]

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