Reply to Reach vs. Possibility vs. Safety?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]      1. Many Asian students and their parents discuss race in admissions ALL THE TIME.  Many in this community feel that their children are disadvantaged by diversity policies that limit the number of Asian students in a class to make room for others, particularly in STEM programs.

2. The US Supreme Ct has held that race, ethnicity socio-economic status and other factors may be considered in college admissions and it has been that way for a long time, although recent decisions are cutting back somewhat on this in the area at public universities.  It cannot be credibly denied that these are relevant factors in many, many schools admissions decisions any more than it can be denied that ability to pay is a factor in a school that is not need blind in admissions (although many of the most selective schools are need blind, some are not) .  [b] I did not see earlier posters argue that race is the only reason any student is accepted to school, [/b]but I did very strong reactions suggesting that such a point was made and then criticizing a point of view that was not advanced.  I saw earlier posters talking about URM status as a factor.  But if we are going to consider such things in admissions, students  who benefit from such things should not be defensive about it.  There are kids at our school -- of all races and backgrounds -- who play sports and may contact a college lacross, baseball, cross country or basketball coach to help them in the admissions process also to schools that they would be less likely to get into based primarily on grades and SATs, and they are usually fairly open about.   And yes the other kids generally know how academically strong those students are  as well without seeing a transcript.  It isn't a big secret.

3.   As noted above, maybe it isn't true in all schools but in smaller school the kids know one another's academic abilities well.   All kids know who makes various honor societies in schools that publish such things, honor such students in assemblies, etc. and the criteria for these are known (for ex., top 10% junior year, top 20% senior year, etc.).  When student A in the top 10% is passed over for student B in the top 20 or who isn't in the top 20%, that is known.  It may not happen that often at a single school, but it is hard to deny that it happens at times.    Similarly, kids all know who are the National Merit Semifinalists and the Commended Scholars -- this is published in the newspapers even if not announced (as it usually is I believe) at school.   They also know the African American and Hispanic students who receive awards based on the same tests that are available only to students of that ethnicity/race, and that the cut offs for these awards to date have been lower than the cut offs for awards to the overall population as NMCSs or NMSFs.   Sure, SAT scores can change between junior and senior year.   Sure, some students with lower grades or SAT scores may get in because of stronger college essays and amazing life stories unrelated to their race, ethnicity, etc.   But is anyone prepared to say it never happens because the URM status was a factor?   Such defensiveness only fuels the arguments against consideration of diversity factors for everyone.  To deny that URM status is a favorable factor in admissions is as ridiculous as claiming that there is no one in the country who dislikes the President solely because of his race.   The only difference is that colleges are usually more open about taking diversity into account in admissions decisions  than racists are about their own views.   [/quote]

Re #2. When the poster said that white, Asian and black kids all had the same credentials (HA! Where does that happen??!!) but it was the BLACK kids who got in (HA again!), that is making the argument that black kids got in based solely on race.

Ooooh the HILARITY! Black, white and Asian kids all with the same impressive credentials?!! What in the Disney Movie world??? I'd also have to assume they all applied at the same school.  :lol: AND the black kids conceded they were admitted due to some magical black privilege? HA! And it gets even better: The white and Asian kids don't begrudge those black kids the spots they gained based solely on race??? That poster should write for Saturday Night Live. I have yet to see a skit on that show funnier than the one she dreamed up.

Re #3. More bull. I challenge every person in this thread to ask some random high schooler who the National Merit Semifinalists and Commended Scholars are in their schools. Ask them who ranks higher academically, whose the highest scorer in the National Honor Society, who earned the best SAT scores, etc. I can assure you that kid will look at you like  :shock: And you'll be looking like  :oops: NO teenager has or cares about that information. They may have some inkling of how some of their closest friends are doing. But to have the kind of information you suggested, whether it's published or not... :roll: [/quote]

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