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[quote=jsteele][quote=Anonymous]Jeff, your patronizing tone is totally unjustified and it makes your tendentious points less, not more, convincing.

At least, after at least two of us have argued the point with you, you seem to have stopped trying to imply that Richard II is a good analogy for the role of Mohammad in Islam.

I already said that I'm totally uninterested in unverifiable speculation about how Mary "may have been younger than 10" when she was married. Sure, and she may have been 20, too. Your "may haves" prove nothing.

I'm sure you'll be a jerk about this, too, but I place a lot of importance on fair, logical examinations of all faiths. I've done a lot of reading on the historical Jesus (Borg, Crossan and the like), I'm pretty sure I know a heck of a lot more about many of these issues than you do. I'm disappointed in your arrogant, poorly-reasoned analogies, and it's clear that reasonable discussion is going to be impossible.

Yeah, go ahead and insult me some more. I'm done here. Good bye.[/quote]

Oh, so you are the Borg, Crossan guy from the Politics Forum? That explains a lot. Yes, as you made clear in the discussion of "Zealot", you are far more learned, far more intelligent, and simply too advanced in your thinking to discuss these topics with us lowlifes. Yet, I am the patronizing one.

As I said, of course you don't want to discuss the age at which Mary was married. But, as you wrote yourself, "conventional wisdom is that she was about 13 or so when she gave birth". With that in mind, do you believe it is more likely that Mary may have been younger than 10 when she was married or that she may have been 20?

If you fail to understand that comparing Christian marriage practices from centuries ago to Muslim marriage practices centuries ago is valid, I don't know what to say. Both practices reflected the times and members of both religions mostly view them as such. But, your "fair, logical, examination" means looking at Mohammad's marriage in a vacuum, ignoring similar Christian practices that were even more recent, and then making a judgement about what that means for today. Basically, you stack the deck and then claim you have come to the correct conclusion. No, you came to the conclusion that you desired.

Now, given your vast background -- including Borg and Crossan -- why don't you tell us what the Eastern Orthodox Church believes about the ages of Mary and Joseph? There is much less speculation about that in the Eastern Church. But, you've made pretty clear that while you are willing to make broad proclamations about Islam, you get pretty touchy about Christianity.
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