Reply to Steubenville Rape Case: What You Haven't Heard-What lessons do you take from this re:your own boys?

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Reply to "Steubenville Rape Case: What You Haven't Heard-What lessons do you take from this re:your own boys?"

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I recently had a conversation with my 15yo about rape and consent, based on this letter:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/ask-amy-teen-victim-looks-for-answers/2013/02/15/e6791910-7793-11e2-8f84-3e4b513b1a13_story.html

I read him the letter and asked him if he thought it was rape and he said yes. We then talked about confusing signals, how any confusion means no, and how anyone influenced by drugs/alcohol is not capable of saying yes. [b]We also talked about how it is not just a question of a girl not saying "no," that she must fully and clearly say YES.  Anything less = back off.[/b]
It came up again last night for some reason, and we talked about how if you are in a situation where, like this girl, you *cannot* speak up and be clear, and are uncomfortable doing so, well then you should not be intimate with that person to begin with - that discomfort like that is a signal that you should not be in that situation.

[/quote]

THANK YOU.  Why do we assume, in this country, that a woman's default state is "I clearly want to bone that guy"?  And that is something that needs to be overcome by her saying "no"?  The burden shouldn't be on the woman to disprove that she wanted to fuck some guy.  The burden should be on the guy to establish that she affirmatively wants to have sex with him.[/quote]

I suppose that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing has got to go, then.  [/quote]

PP here -- please explain how what I wrote challenges the presumption of innocence?  We don't require mugging victims to prove that they didn't want to give the thief their money.  We don't require assault victims to prove that they weren't attacking the accused and that therefore the assault wasn't self-defense.  Victim consent should be an affirmative defense, like self defense, and the burden should be on the accused to establish it.[/quote]

If victim consent becomes an affirmative defense, rather than an element of the offense, you have basically criminalized all sex.  What are the elements of the rape offense at that point?  Having sex.  That's all.  [/quote]

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