Reply to Exclusive school clubs in 4th and 5th grade

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Our school does have some things like this, but other things are mentioned to kids themselves and parents are only contacted if their kid indicates interest. If you have a kid that doesn’t always volunteer themselves and/or just doesn’t pay a ton of attention, that’s another possibility. One of my kids is invited to do everything while another is barely cognizant that the activities exist; if it weren’t for kid #1, I’d think opportunities weren’t advertised to the kids themselves… but because of kid #1, I know they are.[/quote]

OP here, that could be it.

Thanks to the other PPs too. I don’t think the leadership club in this case is code for behavior improvement—I know the kids and they are good kids.

Exclusive clubs are not the same as ability-based, open-through-competition clubs. Teachers inviting certain kids quietly is problematic in elementary in my opinion. Letting kids try and fail is a good exercise. But creating opportunities only for certain kids and quietly/almost secretly is quite another. I don’t know exactly what’s happening though and didn’t want to jump to conclusions.[/quote]

But the point is that some of the "exclusive clubs" are things that the kids implicitly auditioned for via their classes (DCPS math bowl, DCPS Google competition, Battle of the Books, DCPS 5th Grade All Star Choir). The math instructional coach, the music teacher, etc don't need to do sham auditions, because they already know which kids can do math, read books quickly, sing well, etc. Your kid was eligible and considered, he just didn't get it.[/quote]

NP. I don't know about this. Some of this stuff, yes, teachers will know because kids are explicitly tested in a variety of ways (homework, in class small groups, iReady diagnostics, RCTs, etc.). So yes, if the school does a club for kids who are advanced in math and only offers it to the kids testing above a certain level in math, that makes sense.

But for categories, I think you need a more explicit try out. [b]Some kids sing very well but are shy during music class and sing quietly or hide in the back[/b]. That's actually exactly the sort of kid who would benefit from being singled out for something like an after school choir. Not 5th Grade All Star Choir but a club specific to the school. Or with writing -- some kids write well but struggle with the structured writing they are prompted to do in school. If you're doing a creative writing club after school, you should base it on an open writing assignment that allows kids to show off their ability/creativity, not on how well they answer curriculum based reading comprehension questions in ELA.

And OP said this club was for leadership. I actually think basing that on teacher selection instead of an application process is really dicy because in elementary, [b]kids with "leadership" qualities are sometimes just popular kids[/b]. They tend to be the oldest in the grade, for boys the tallest or most athletic, for girls the prettiest. This is why we don't let 3rd graders vote (though many adults don't do any better than this). If I was creating a leadership club at an elementary school, I would have a formal application process where kids explained in their own words what makes a good leader, what they think it means to have strength of character, be persuasive, or what obligations leaders have to the people they lead. Some of the popular kids likely would do well on that application, but I bet you'd also discover some of the kids outside of that group have a lot to offer and deserve an opportunity to hone those leadership skills. Otherwise you are just reinforcing the shallow preferences of school popularity, not really helping to build strong leaders.[/quote]

All of this was written by someone who is clearly not a teacher.

I was a teacher for years. Teachers understand each kid very well, and can see through all of this.

Teachers also have a LOT of exposure to parents who don't have a good grasp on how their kids compare to the rest of the kids.
[/quote]

I will say in DCPS it is very difficult to get a feel for how my kids compare to the rest of the kids. The school rarely shares the information they have that compares my kid to others and instead just compares my kid to mushy "meeting expectations" benchmarks on the 1-4 scale. CAPE testing was one of the few times I got information that explicitly compared my kid to others. Another was a rare time that the school shared the distribution of iready diagnostic scores, and that was only because parents were complaining about a change in curriculum and the school wanted to push back and show that scores increased. I realized after awhile I'd get better info from my kids because they know what reading and math groups they are in. Even if the teachers won't tell us whether our kids are in the highest group and just call the groups different cutesy animal names, the kids know where they stand. [/quote]

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