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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I think so. They got 45% of the vote, which was enough to control the parliament.

Certainly not all Palestinians support them. How many do I don’t know, but not all.

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And that was back in 2006.  Hamas has not had any elections since.  I think there was a poll that showed something like 76% of Palestinians are not happy with how Hamas is running things.[/quote]

Once you elect terrorists or fascists or any other group that rules by ruthless violence and intimidation take power, they won’t give up power and will manufacture conflicts and crises to incite fear and prejudice among the citizens. Once Hamas got control of Gaza the current situation was inevitable. This is what they wanted, their strategy is to periodically generate mass deaths of innocent civilians on both sides. They won’t negotiate peace with Israel and they won’t let anyone else negotiate on behalf of Gazans. Hamas exists to create chaos. [/quote]

Hamas existed to create chaos and was added by Bibi destabilize Palestine’s secular government.[/quote]

I'm not sure what fantasy world exists where Palestine would ever have a peaceful secular government (takes a long hard look at all the other Arab countries in the region). Frankly, the most realistic alternative history for Palestine absent the creation of Israel would be another Syria, or in best possible case and with enormous luck, another Lebanon, but Syria is a more likely comparison. Which means not pretty and not peaceful.

That aside, the furore and intensity of the pro Palestinian protests combined with the stubborn refusal to acknowledge the severity of the barbarism of the Hamas attacks, which went far beyond just shooting people, and protests that began even before Israel responded to the attacks on October 7, does make me strongly suspicious of the idea that Palestinians and even the Muslim world in general would be supportive of a two state solution or anything that doesn't involve the disestablishment of Israel outright. After all, Israel had fully withdrawn from Gaza while still supplying it with electricity and resources and the Hamas attacks was surely in reaction to the Abrahamic accords and a warning to the leadership of the more moderate Arab countries.

I'm reminded of what happened following the creation of Israel in 1948, of how the rest of the Middle East responded violently by attacking and then driving out their own Jewish populations, who had nothing to do with Israel and had lived in those countries for centuries. Like the Iraqi Jewish population that numbered around 150,000 in the late 40s, or the large Jewish communities across Egypt and North Africa. Close to half of Israel's population is descended from Jews forcibly pushed out of all the other Middle Eastern countries. They were not and never were European "colonizers" in any meaningful sense of the word, but Middle Easterners! But it shows you Jews everywhere in the world are punished for Israel, regardless of their support or opposition to either Israel or Zionism or the settlements, and it does make you look long and hard at the sincerity of support for any kind of peaceful compromise between Israel and Palestine.

What I really wished could have happened was for the Americans and Canadians to have offered part of the western USA and Canada as a new nation for the world's Jews. There's plenty of room there. Absent that I'd accept a global compromise that welcomed the entire Jewish population of the world to the United States in exchange for a guarantee that no further Muslim immigration to the US would be allowed, solely to ensure the security and safety of American Jews. But that's also the realm of fantasy and we have to deal with this world as it is.[/quote]

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