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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]See, the thing is, YOU have no idea how TO students do compared to the ones who submitted. It’s time to stop pretending the SAT/ACT is a proxy for innate ability or talent. They aren’t. [/quote]

The Selingo article discussed the fact that schools that track have found that TO students are not performing as well.  Of course, there is still very limited data, at least with respect to schools that went TO due to Covid.

I suspect that schools will react by making the standards for TO admission higher or letting fewer students in TO so they can more easily focus remedial efforts on them.[/quote]

I don't think that's what the Selingo article said.  From the article itself:

"For now, MIT remains in the minority in its claims about the predictive power of the SAT. In 2021, Wake Forest, which went test optional in 2008, released a longitudinal analysis that found that applicants who don’t submit scores — who are twice as likely to be low income, students of color, or the first in their family to go to college — have a lower GPA their first year at Wake Forest, but it narrows each subsequent year to a .03 difference by graduation with minimal difference in graduation rates. (Interestingly, students who withheld their scores even graduated at a slightly higher rate, at 90 percent, than those who sent scores, at 87 percent.) Studies of other colleges that went test optional before the pandemic have arrived at similar conclusions: After some time as an undergraduate, there isn’t much difference in the academic performance between students who submitted and those who didn’t."
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Also directly from the article:

Meanwhile, other anecdotal results from the test-optional experiment are starting to trickle in. At one top-ranked liberal arts college, where 60 percent of the students who enrolled last year submitted scores, the admissions dean told me that the average first-year GPA for members of the freshman class that submitted scores was 3.57; for non-submitters it was 3.47. “Institutional research tells me the difference is statistically significant,” he said. Another admissions dean, from the selective private university weighing the “million-dollar question,” told me faculty members have informed him about students who have “a little less confidence” in the classroom. Since professors don’t know whether their students submitted scores, the admissions dean asks for names. He then looks them up. Most of the time, he said, the students didn’t submit scores. “The question is, if I’m coming in with a 1600 or a 1550 on the SAT, does that do something to my level of confidence in the classroom versus someone who just came in with grades?” this admissions dean wonders.

[/quote]
DP.. the level of confidence wouldn't be contingent on taking the SAT. It's more about whether your grades were inflated or not.  If you got straight As, but only achieved it with a lot of support, retaking tests, graded on a curve, then your high grades that got you into college did you a disservice.  But, if you got straight As without much support or retaking, then chances are you'd be more confident in college.[/quote]

I would think that knowing you have an 1100 in a school where the average student has a score above 1400, that may lead to imposter syndrome. I assume that most non-submitters took the tests and didn't submit because they knew their scores were too low for admission, maybe I'm wrong there [/quote]

You didn't consider that many students are not submitting test scores because they scored 1300/1350 when the average score is 1400. In other words, TO is causing students to only submit scores above the 50 percentile and at super reach schools, at or above the 75 percentile. [/quote]

Very true. It’s getting more and more confusing. [/quote]

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