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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It’s a mistake to think of education as training school.  Limited thinking brings limited results. [/quote]

Nobody's making that mistake.  
It just that the employers/industries/society that actually pay their $$$ think that the STEM or Business majors has good thinking skills as well as specialized skills.  
Market is smarter than what you think

So good thinking skills vs good thinking sills + specialized skills.
Who would you pick?

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This is why liberal arts majors (non-stem based) can really help themselves by having a minor in something like CS/Business/finance/econ/data analytics/etc.  Get that art history degree because that is what you are passionate about. I'm all for that---we need people in all aspects of life---life would be boring if everyone were a stem major.   But also get a marketing minor or Econ minor---pick something that will make you more marketable and help you stand out from other non-stem LA majors.  Because the fact is you do have to market yourself differently with a LA degree versus a stem/business degree. Then you have the Critical thinking skills and a bit of specialized skills.  
The fact is even with an English degree, there is a good chance you may someday work as a writer for a company and there's a good chance that company has some type of tech focus.  So having taken some CS course or business courses will help you.  
And if you end up working at an art museum (I'm assuming that's the "dream job" for someone with a BA in Art history), you will still have the business/econ/marketing/cs skills and they will serve you well.

In the same realm, I strongly encourage STEM/business majors to explore LA courses and maybe minor in something with a different slant that gives them more critical thinking skills---that is why Psychology is an extremely popular minor at most schools.

There are plenty of companies that hire "anyone with a BS/BA degree"--they want critical thinkers and know they can train any smart, critical thinker.   I can think of one specific in Healthcare/Technology that does just that.  The hiring process is rigorous. They hire "trainers" and "Quality managers".  Those trainers are training users on software/technology and QMs are essentially end user testing software.  More than 50% of those positions are filled with general LA degrees, and many business majors.  The company can easily train anyone who is smart, critical thinker, for these positions.  College is about learning and growing.  But come graduation you have to put those skills to use.

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I think one issue is that there's a huge difference between a passionate, high-stats student who has a burning desire to read great books, and becomes an English major, and a disengaged, low-stats student who ends up majoring in philosophy as a default, simply because most of the philosophy professors are kind enough to use a C- as the failing grade for students who tried.

The passionate English major might end up earning $30,000, but having a great time, as an administrator at a nonprofit group, or a private school teacher. That recent grad might show up as a failure on the outcomes list but actually be a success.

The disengaged philosophy major might end up earning $30,000 as a barista. And, the truth is: For a passionate person, maybe the barista job could actually lead to all sorts of great opportunities. But the disengaged philosophy major may not have the level of energy and focus needed to make opportunities happen.

That isn't really the result of any big problem with majoring in philosoph; that's the result of the fact that humanities programs and social sciences programs at non-selective schools tend to serve as rescue programs for disengaged students with weak math skills.[/quote]

I agree.

I'd even go so far as to say, the disengaged "philosophy" major who ends up there because its the "easiest" degree to get likely should not be at college.  DOesn't sound like they are engaged with learning at all.  Those are kids who should be at CC (where it's more affordable to try things out and find a path) or investigating trade school or what path they want in life.  Don't just go to college unless you are engaged and putting forth the effort.  Otherwise you might just drop out before finishing or finish with a degree that is meaningless since you are not engaged and still have tons of student loans to pay off, but end up working a job that doesn't require a college degree.

And yes, the engaged LA major will go far in life.  Everyone should do what they love.   But life will be much easier if they don't weigh themselves down with student loans they cannot easily afford (making $30K/year simply doesn't allow much in the way of student loan repayment, unless you are still living at home with your parents).  And they are not a "failure" for not making 80K+.  We need people like this!  And yes, they should be paid more, but that's not likely to happen anytime soon, so until then plan accordingly so they can be fully functioning adults (ie living independently without roommates and paying all their own bills)

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I don't think there are many "disengaged" philosophy majors. It is definitely not the "easiest" degree.[/quote]

My impression is that at reasonably selective schools, it’s a very difficult major, but that, especially at weaker schools, maybe it’s a major where C minus is the true minimum grade for students who turned everything in on time and learned at least a little.

The odds of getting A’s or AB’s in classes like that might not be all that better than in physics classes, but the odds of passing might be higher.

At least, that’s what I’m picturing when I see VCU philosophy majors at the bottom of the outcomes list in that article. I have a hard time believing that majoring in philosophy itself is that big of a career obstacle. I would think the challenge is that VCU might not have a famous philosophy program, and that students who end up majoring in philosophy there might tend not to be great strategists.

If anyone here is involved with the VCU philosophy program and knows that it’s wonderful, and that the problem is prejudice against philosophy majors: sorry. But that’s the picture I came away with. [/quote]

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