Reply to "Smartness" of fellow students and whether it matters

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I think your question mixes up a lot of things - tests scores, rankings, intelligence of fellow students, and whether that affects your experience. Especially in classes that are discussion based or have any competition, yes, the caliber of your students is a huge factor. A Harvard caliber student would probably still do great at a SLAC down in the 50s on the rankings - I don’t think intellectually there’s that much difference among those students. But that student going to San Diego State would get a way worse education just bc their peers are not as stimulating and challenging.[/quote]

You're right that their classroom discussion would be worse, but wrong to assume that means their education would be worse. San Diego State's professors still mostly have PhDs, and the student with high test scores (assuming they also work hard) is going to attract a lot of interest from those professors, which will lead them to great opportunities that they might not have gotten if they'd gone to the T30 university.[/quote]

DP.  Sure, the instructors at SDSU have PhDs and the knowhow to guide the motivated student who seeks out deeper understanding, which can lead to unique opportunities, but day in, day out, the courses are taught at a lower level, the discussion is non-existent, the scores are lower and the curves more generous.  Meanwhile Harvard runs a seminar that can get freshman to graduate level math in one year. No one can replicate that camping out in office hours.  Someone who lacks confidence can benefit from being top dog for a bit, but most people learn from their peers, not just their professors.[/quote]

If the discussion is non-existent it's only because the classes are too big to allow for it, not because the students aren't bright enough or motivated enough. There's plenty of good, intelligent conversation taking place in the classrooms at places like Catholic U, Washington College, Mary Washington, Elon, etc.[/quote]

Not my experience.  I had plenty of small, upper-division classes with tenured professors at a state school similar to SDSU and there was zero engagement.  Yes, there were smart students getting a good education, but they kept to themselves.[/quote]

Which school was this that we should be avoiding?[/quote]

Sure, I could bash my state school again, or point out I hear the exact same thing from people who went to lower ranking state schools around the country. The median students set the culture. I[b]t’s true at mid ranked small schools, too[/b].[/quote]

DP: As a NMSF who went to a mid-ranked SLAC on scholarship  I disagree.   When you have 1500 students, there really is more personalization--you might have 50-60 people in your major and 15-20 in your year in your major.  And these schools usually have special research opportunities for advanced/interested students.  And because it's small but you have to take a broad curriculum, there are no 'non-major' classes--so if you're a bio major taking your philosophy req, you're going to read primary core texts etc.  I went to an ivy for grad school and I was very well-prepared.  There are some downsides to small SLACs, but I wouldn't say a lower intellectual culture is one of them.  As a student, you orient your sense of the content a lot more around your professor than fellow students just because the size and the level of feedback you get from the prof. I've since taught in state schools and I see the impact of the general level of students on the level of the course a lot more, just because of the number of people majoring etc. you start to form a mental model of what is average more and adjust the course to it.
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