Reply to Ukraine Azov — what is the deal

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]PPs have posted a lot of old information about Azov battallion and not much about how Azov‘s founder has done with his attempt to leave Azov battalion and start his own political party (hint - terribly) and what Azov was and is now.

Yes, Azov was founded back in 2014 by some people who had Nazi or far right beliefs, but at that time the Ukrainian army was very small and weak and had to rely on ad hoc militias like Azov which fought amazongly well and held off the Russians from taking Mariupol in 2014. As the UA developed tbe strategy was to regularize Azov into official structures so as to be able to diminish any far right influence. The founder of Azov left to start his own party, which has not been succesful at winning seats in parliament.

Ros Atkins of BBC does a great 10 minute piece with the complete 8 year history on Azov and what its influence is today.   It’s an accurate, well-balanced piece.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0bx9slf/ros-atkins-on-ros-atkins-on[/quote]

So.. you mean they are "good" nazis?  :lol:  [/quote]

DP. No, no one is saying that. Their relative prominence and strength has been diminishing as the army was being strengthened over the past years since 2014. But yes, back in March - May 2014 (February 2014 yanukovych ran away with contents of Ukraine’s treasury, russia annexed crimea and invaded donbas, while trying similar scenarios in odesa, Kharkiv, and a few other cities), [b]Volunteer battalions including azov[/b] were crucial in fighting russia. [/quote]

Why were they so crucial? Other Ukrainians weren't as enthusiastic to fight Russia? Just trying to understand why their involvement was so important in 2014.  It's pretty clear Putin is taking advantage of this fact and it serves his propaganda[/quote]

I didn’t write only Azov was crucial. I wrote volunteer battalions ***including*** Azov were crucial. They were crucial because the army was week and unprepared for russian invasion and a lot of reliance was on volunteers. It was not clear if russia at the time would go ahead with a full scale invasion, but it was a possibility  then that they would attack from the northern borders. Back then they didn’t, but the army and the international support were nowhere where they are now.[/quote]

Interesting.  I honestly don't know much about that region, so it's all relatively new to me.  But this also begs a question, why didn't Russia not attack back then full scale when Ukrainian army was weaker?  It's would have been strategically advantageous then, now they are getting slaughtered by better trained, organized and armed Ukrainian armies and volunteers. [/quote]

I don’t know. I guess they were not ready either. At the time, putin tried to use the same methodology that he used on Donetsk and Luhansk - bring over young athletic men wearing civilian clothes to protest pro-russia, occupy administrative buildings, raise russia flag and then appeal to russia for help as “rebels” and “break out regions”. The same was tried in several major cities including Kharkiv but by then the people had wisened up to the tactic and there was much more awareness of (the russian language of russian speaking Ukrainians differs from that of russians - accent, choice of some words, how some words are pronounced, that people can usually tell) and harder resistance to any such “demonstrations”. There was a few weeks back a news item that putin was questioning that the russians spent 5$ billion on destabilization in Ukraine so that people meet troops with flowers. So probably that was the strategy, prepare the ground to reduce resistance? But then Covid happened, which may have postponed the invasion, and guess thanks to kleptocracy that money went to someone’s yacht or vacation home and the Ukrainians missed the memo that they should have met the russian troops with flowers. Same it seems with the 2nd strongest army in the world, lots of funds went to private pockets…. [/quote]

He probably was waiting for Trump’s second term. Would’ve been two birds with one stone - capture Ukraine and have NATO fall apart. [/quote]

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