Reply to S/o outsourcing cleaning as a relationship fix

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I agree with you OP and I hate this suggestion. Not just because not everyone can afford cleaners.

So much of the problem is that most men are not raised to clean well. My DH simply did not know how to clean when I met him. He could do dishes and the laundry, but he doesn't really know how to clean a house on a basic level. He doesn't know what cleaning solutions you need for different surfaces, or whether you scrub or wipe something down. He is inefficient when he cleans. His parents did not make him or his brother clean when they were growing up beyond straightening up their rooms and cleaning the kitchen after dinner. And in his case, this 100% a gender thing (though that's there too) -- truthfully no one in his family is that good at cleaning.

But the other problem is that men get taught that being dirty and gross is masculine. Like they are taught to associate cleanliness with femininity and to want to avoid feminine things. It is truly one of the most basic behaviors of toxic masculinity. I've discussed it with my DH and he knows he has this kind of visceral reaction to cleaning that comes from messed up ideas he was taught about gender. And not just from his parents. Society in general has this idea that boys can and should be dirty, that a bachelor's house or a frat house is going to be gross and that's not only okay but kind of funny and good. There is not really any social consequence for men if they are perceived as dirty, whereas a young woman who is dirty and unkempt is considered abnormal and might even be shunned.

When families just outsource cleaning instead of teaching all of their children how to clean and care for their homes and their bodies, it doesn't change any of this. Especially because the people coming to clean their homes are almost universally women (and often women of color and/or immigrants, which is not a dynamic we can ignore) so it just reinforces the idea that cleaning is something women do. And worse, it reinforces the idea that cleaning is something that "other" women, who have less money and are less privileged, do.

We are only making it worse. Our husbands have to learn to clean, and we have to hold them accountable for it, and we all have to teach our kids to do it.[/quote]

All of this is true. I want my kids to learn to clean. We can do it together. It’s family time and cleaning time. And while we aren’t living in filth, my standards are pretty forgiving. Like this weekend? Family party. No big cleaning. I still did domestic labor or childcare from 6-10 am before my first break. [/quote]

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