Reply to To you, what's the bottom of the "elite" colleges?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]HYPSM, caltech, chicago, Columbia, Williams.

That's my list.

[/quote]
+1  as defined by the academic cohort at the top 10% (arbitrary) of their respective classes[/quote]

Pomona has more students in the top 10% of the class than Williams. There are plenty of others as well like Dartmouth and Brown. If that's your criteria, you're clearly not informed.[/quote]

I'm referring to the top 10% of the college's own classes (not entry HS grades or SAT scores for admissions to the institutions).
My personal opinion is that the cohort at the top are strongest at the schools listed because it's a mix of our best plus the top international students.  I'm not saying that there aren't brilliant students at other schools but I think there are less of them and they are not tested on a daily basis in the same way.  Williams is also rated as one of the most rigorous schools in the country among universites and LACs.  For their grade inflation alone I agreed with the original posters assessment.   Ther are plenty of students at Pomona, Brown and Dartmouth that go on to have successful and lucrative careers but that's not the same as the academic elites who are game changers.  IMO.[/quote]

I agree that HYPMS and maybe UChicago/Caltech/Columbia are in a tier of their own. I only disagree with Williams. It's really not at the HYPMS level in terms of selectivity/strength of student body, and not so much higher than Amherst/Pomona/Swarthmore/Bowdoin at this day and time. Here's the list of colleges sorted by average SAT of enrolled students: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-50-smartest-colleges-in-america-2016-10 Williams is 17th.

Also, just a side-note that HYS all have median GPAs above 3.6 and are known for having a ton of grade inflation. I've heard that less than 10% of grades given out there are C's or below. If you want to identify the most rigorous elite schools by a combination of workload and average GPA, that'd be Reed, Swarthmore, UChicago, Princeton, and Davidson. I'd include Williams too- it's definitely rigorous- but being rigorous and attracting the smartest students are two different measures.  [/quote]

Not saying I would know how to break out the 10%.  It wouldn't be based on grades.  I think there is a group of students at schools who take the most challenging courses, double/triple major, walk out with masters, do cutting edge research as undergraduates, break new ground with original thinking.  I think more of them are attracted to HYPSMCCC  because of the faculty, academic resources and hope of finding like minded peers.  Grades are not their focus.    IMO  it's a mix of the top tier a school attracts or builds through their teaching that establishes a school's elite reputation and sets the bar for others.  HYPSMCCC all had their own way of building that cluster.  BTW I agree with you about Williams after thinking about your comments; I did intertwine rigor with smartest and it isn't the same.  This has been a fun string for a silly theoritical debate.    I don't really care about elite (unless it gets my kid that first great job  :wink: ) [/quote]

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