Reply to Google male engineeer saying female engineers shouldn't be engineers

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
[b]I feel if it wasn't for the diversity programs I would never be given a chance to begin with![/b] The problem isn't with the HR folks, it is with male engineers and developers. The Indian men were just as bad as the white men, btw. I do find if Indian men are second or third generation Americans they are more progressive than the others. But also why would minorities (all foreigners) want to try to assimilate into the predominate culture when there is so much anti-immigration sentiment?! It is really hostile for them right now, so I understand their insular behavior.

Seriously, the diversity people make it possible for me to get an interview. The anti-diversity people want me to shut up and stay home barefoot and pregnant. This manifesto really drives home the hostility in tech, and likely society at large, these days. [/quote]
This. I'm 10:26 on p1, and I've heard the argument that "diversity" hiring makes me suspect and I shouldn't want it if I'm truly competitive, completely ignoring the fact that without "diversity" hiring practices I would never get the opportunity to prove that I'm truly competitive. What I've found is that most *senior* men understand this...they aren't just paying lip service to it, they get it. My DH was probably luke warm on the extent to which technical women face workplace discrimination, now that he's a very senior manager with a 60 person team, he says he is hyper-aware of it. Everything from noticing that being the only woman in a team can make work dinners and after dinner outings uncomfortable to realizing the impacts unreasonable work demands have on overall morale and commitment...and ways that impacts women worse than men (e.g. a badly managed team that places unnecessary demands on everyone hurts women more than men).

Regardless, I think my second point (and the former Google engineer's rebuttal) is critical. Men seem to think writing code is that makes a good software engineer...which is something like suggesting that being able to write complete sentences makes you a good novelist. They then go on to eschew all of the things that improve product as being some kind of PC nonsense, failing to recognize that their approach leads to bad product.

I don't know the best solution to this. I think it would be helpful for CS programs to shift their focus toward more outcome-based instruction. Stanford (my alma mater) has made changes in this direction, and it seems to increase the number of women in CS programs. And I've seen no indication that they are less competent than men. Harvey Mudd has done something similar.

Ultimately, though, the business argument to me makes the most sense. If women are buying and using products, it's reasonable for anyone who believes that women are inherently different than men to think there would be business value in having them help build those products. Even if, a big if, they are inferior engineers, they would be valuable to a company that is interested in making money rather than just cool things.[/quote]

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