Reply to What am I if I think Jesus was the best moral teacher ever but am indifferent re his divinity?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]What if you aren't convinced he actually existed but do think the "story" of Jesus had a profound effect on humanity? Some good, some bad. [/quote]

Then I think you just appreciate good literature?  I'm OP.  I'm positive he existed.[/quote]

You might be positive, but you can't really know.  He lived too long ago, as a simple carpenter -- there is no proof of his existence.  There is proof of christianity existing in the first century, but not of its founder.[/quote]

This is true. If there really was a Jesus, he left no writings or his own, and no one started writing about him until the next century. Furthermore, if there really was a Jesus, why no mention in Roman histories?  True, some versions of Josephus mention Jesus, but these are clearly Christian inserts. Moreover, the writings about Jesus contain nothing new. His sayings are quotations from the Old Testament. Even his throwing the money changers out of the Temple was a common practice at that time. [/quote]

The first writings about Jesus were just a few decades after his death (Mark was 60-70 AD and Paul's epistles are dated to 50-60 AD), not in the next century. Among the Romans, Pliny also mentions Jesus. Most serious historians don't causally write these Roman mentions off as "clearly inserts", FWIW, especially since they're not particularly pro-Christian.[/quote]

Perhaps pp was referring to extra-biblical writings about Jesus. And pp accurately characterized the Jewish historian Josephus which anyone can check for themselves.  The fact that Jesus was not well known during his time or that there is not proof of his existence doesn't mean he is not worthy to be worshipped as the son of God.  There is no evidence for God appearing to Moses either, or of Adam and Eve, yet Christianity uses these stories as its basis, as do Judaism and Islam.[/quote]

I am a PP - former Catholic, now an atheist.  If archaeologists can unearth artifacts from prehistoric days, certainly they would have discovered primary accounts of Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead.  There are many stories stemming from pagan beliefs, however, that share common themes with the life of Jesus - virgin birth, death, resurrection, magical skills.

Once upon a time - long before we had the scientific method - we thought that gods controlled nature.  Did you even think about the phrase, Acts of God, found in insurance claims?  These many gods controlled too many groups of people who were able to be unified under one god.  Remember that leaders once upon a time were the direct line to God - similar to a priest's role when he absolves you of your sins.

So these many gods were combined into one.  And while the Hebrew god, Yaweh, became "the God," Yaweh is rooted in Asherah, which was a pagan goddess.

I could go on and on, especially about the Jews being enslaved by the Egyptians, which was most likely another story, but I'll end it here.[/quote]

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