Reply to Asians are suing Harvard and UNC - Chapel Hill for use of quotas

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Arab-Americans are discriminated against, but there are no preferences for them in college.  So are Jewish-Americans in many instances.  I would imagine that it's difficult to achieve as a Muslim-American woman in the US.  I think that's why it's problematic to only identify certain groups as worthy of a second look, different standard and not others.  Any kid who has ever had a teacher unable to pronounce his name, been compared to Osama Bin laden, laughed at because she had an accent, etc.  should perhaps get that look. [/quote]

Are they underrepresented in higher education?   If yes, then they should get a second look.  If no, then they shouldn't.  Of course there are particular instances, but if you're looking for a bright-line rule, then that's the only one that seems coherent.
If there's some "I was discriminated against as an Arab-American woman, and my mom couldn't go to school in her home country" background, then that should definitely go in an essay.
I wonder what people make of the "discrimination" against girl applicants. [b] After all, it's harder to get in as a girl than a boy, all other factors being equal. [/b] So is that a lawsuit we need to start?[/quote]

Women are given preferential treatment in admission to the MIT, CalTech, etc schools.  [/quote]

Great.  How about all the other non-tech schools. [/quote]

which is why on page one i said white girls should be on the side of asian-americans on this. [/quote]

Nah.  I'm a white girl, but I still think racism matters and URMs should get a bump. [/quote]

If racism matters, then racism against Asian Americans matter as well both racism in general and the racism in college admissions. [/quote]
Yes but since Asians are not underrepresented, you're not showing racism that impacts educational attainment. [/quote]

If we are going to go back to the proportional representation, we have to be consistent and talk about proportional representation in other areas as well.

For example, Asian Americans should make up 6% of the Judges in this country. Asian Americans should make up 6% of the politicians in this country. Asian Americans should make up 6% of the CEOs of fortune 500 companies. Asian Americans should make up 6% of the actors in movies and TVs. Asian Americans should make up 6% of the professional athletes in this country etc. The list is almost endless.

The point is, why is it that one area (academics) where Asians apparently are "over-represented" a major problem but the fact that Asian Americans are severely "under-represented" in virtually all other areas never a problem?

The proportional argument should be applied consistently for all areas not just one or two.[/quote]
Because we value education differently.  And because we are talking about education here.  If Asians are underrepresented as ceo's or judges that's an issue, but not related to college admissions. [/quote]

Education is certainty valued by Asian Americans as well. The other areas are mentioned only in response to the usual proportional representation argument. We do not live in a vacuum. Education and eventual accomplishments and success are all connected. In fact, extreme under-representation of Asian Americans in all areas except college student populations demonstrates extreme discrimination and obstacles.

Can we also say that it's ok to have under-representation of blacks in education since blacks are over-represented in sports, music industry etc.? We are still talking about education.

If blacks made up 36% of the NFL players, we could say they are certainly still over-represented compared to the general population of about 12%. In reality, blacks make up about 70% of the NFL players. That is what Asian Americans are saying: Yes, 18% of the top colleges is greater than 6% but it would be closer to 36% without the discrimination and quotas.    [/quote]

+1000
[/quote]

You misunderstood.  When I said we value education differently I meant we, as a society, value education differently than we value things like sports. We care more about education because it is the key to nearly everything.  So having some groups be underrepresented in education is a major social issue, whereas having certain groups be underrepresented in hockey isn't.  [/quote]

I really wish that the following were true and that we "value education differently than we value things like sports. We care more about education because it is the key to nearly everything". However, the reality is that most Americans value sports, music etc. more than education.

Just look at universities in general: Pennstate atrocity was only possible because we (colleges) value revenue generating, reputation enhancing athletic programs more than providing education. UNC atrocity was only possible since we (colleges) value (sad but true) revenue generating, reputation enhancing athletic programs more than providing education. Not just colleges, in high schools all over the country as well. The high school football players in PA received "slap on the wrist" for rape because we value football programs more than providing good education. Who are the most valued "stars" in almost all high schools? Football stars, basketball stars, baseball stars etc. NOT academic achievers.

Sadly, we, as a society do not value education more than things like sports. Having certain racial group underrepresented in business, government, media, entertainment industry (which plays a key role in general perception and views), sports, law, military, academia, etc. etc. is a major social issue especially when it is so wide spread.  [/quote]

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