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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Exactly - what is the point of doing this assessment AFTER they have been admitted?

Its easy to say 'go back to base' but in reality - its a very hard thing to do and a vast majority dont go back to base and just will suffer thr 4 years at TJ.[/quote]

Right now the racial make up of the student body is:

ASIAN	                                        1,278	
BLACK (NOT OF HISPANIC ORIGIN)	118	
HISPANIC OR LATINO	                        155
TWO OR MORE	                                118	
WHITE (NOT OF HISPANIC ORIGIN)	437

If everyone that was accepted went to and stayed at TJ the student body would look like this:

ASIAN	                                        1,284
BLACK (NOT OF HISPANIC ORIGIN)	127	
HISPANIC OR LATINO	                        181
TWO OR MORE	                                122	
WHITE (NOT OF HISPANIC ORIGIN)	485

So ignoring the froshmores (I know there are a lot of them but there seems to be almost zero information about them).

We see a large gap among hispanic students (about 26 students) who presumably returned to their base school and white students (about 48 students).  I suspect that a lot of asians are leaving and getting replaced by froshmores.  The black kids are gutting it out.

[quote]Bring back a more objective test.  I agree the old process was crooked - kids shared the questions at Curie and those who went there had an advantage.

So maybe just use the 8/9 grade PSAT question paper as admissions criterion. It will surface the top kids ready for TJ and will not be subject to question leaks at Curie.[/quote]

[b]The problem is that any sort of testing is going to select for asians[/b].  Whenever you see people trying to eliminate testing (or any other objective measure of merit), they are trying to avoid over-selecting asians.  It's not that they don't want asians, they just don't want so many asians that everyone else gets crowded out.  So you reduce standards and make the admissions more random.  Once testing (or any other objective merit based criteria) becomes a significant part of the admissions decision you end up with too many asians.

The racial disparity existed before Quant Q.  It existed before Curie.  They used to use the SHSAT way back when and then started engaging in experimentation to try and get different racial results.

At least this way the pool of admitted students looks more diverse even if the diverse kids don't actually matriculate.  The freshman class[/quote]

Does it occur to you that the bolded statement is racist?
[/quote]

How is the statement racist?  It's an (unfortunate) fact.  You might venture into the realm of racism by offering opinions on why the test gap exists, but it certainly exists.

See https://www.brookings.edu/articles/sat-math-scores-mirror-and-maintain-racial-inequity and look at the "Wide race gaps in SAT math scores" chart.

38% of Asians score in 700-800 range on SAT math.  That falls to 9% for Whites, 2% for Hispanics, and 1% for Blacks.  If you were to pick an objective test for entry into TJ -- a STEM school -- you would pick some type of test that would have approximately the same distribution, and Asian students would be overrepresented.  The only way to narrow the gap is to do something other than merit testing, with merit being STEM ability as opposed to something else.  Pretending the facts are any different is ignoring reality.[/quote]

The numbers you cite are not necessarily related to ability. If you want a school to educate kids with STEM ability, there are better ways to identify those kids than with a standardized test that can be gamed. 
[/quote]

I don't think that poster cares about that at all . They simply preferred a system that favored those with serious interest and financial means.[/quote]

I'm the poster of the statistics.  My post doesn't take any position on which system is the right one.  I am merely pointing out the fact that any merit test you use for STEM will result in Asian overrepresentation.  And by "merit test," I mean a test that measures current abilities.

As for the previous poster, of course the SAT tests current capabilities.  It might not measure very well inherent ability to learn a subject over times (though, there is almost certainly a strong correlation).  But the point is, if you are trying to come up with a test to measure current ability to succeed at a competitive STEM-focused school, that test will overrepresent Asians to a large degree.  Now, once you can accept that fact, you can have a debate about whether anything should be done to racially balance and, if so, how that should be done -- whether earlier intervention, race plus factors, etc., etc.[/quote]

The SAT can be gamed. [/quote]

And yet it is a more reliable predictor of academic performance than any other measure.[/quote]

You misspelled wealth. 
[/quote]

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