Reply to Be Wary of Racism and Islamophobes

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[quote=Muslima][quote=Anonymous][quote=Muslima][quote=Anonymous]Let's do that last para again:

Bottom line: How does it promote understanding about what's going on in many moderate Muslim societies today, to leave people with the unmoderated statement that "Islam offers equality to women (again, a statement that one of you actually made), which is actually misleading in many contexts. And further, to claim that anybody who questions or doubts your statements about "Islam offers equality to women" is an "Islamophobe"?

I'm not afraid of the moderator. I disagree with him that defending underdogs means allowing any kind of BS you want to post to go completely unquestioned.[/quote]

Ok, I have ignored you for a long time but you keep repeating the same thing over and over and use "equality" at each corner. So, let me be clear. Equality doesn't mean X=Y. Equality means that in the face of Divine Law, both men and women are equal, i-e Allah judge all of His servants according to their deeds, not according to their gender. Men & Women practice the 5 pillars of Islam the same way. There isn't a special Quran for men and a special Quran for females. Men and women have the same religious and moral duties and responsibilities. They both face the same consequences or rewards of their deeds. [b]Both genders are entitled to equality before the law and courts of law. [/b]Justice is genderless.

Now, I already know what you are going to come back with. But a man can have 4 wives, a man's testimony is worth more than a woman's , women inherit less, yadi yadi yada, We've debated those over 20 pages in different threads, no need to rehash them once more. If you didn't get it then, you won't it now. It should be added that from an Islamic perspective, the roles of men and women are complementary and cooperative rather than competitive. Their roles and responsibilities in life are different because of their physical and emotional differences. We have different demands, different responsibilities ect. Righteousness determines the value of humans in Allah's sight.  It is not their gender or race, if you can't get that, well I can't help it. No need to have the same discussion with the same arguments 1000x, really![/quote]

No, here's what I'm going to come back with:

The fault is yours, for using words like "equality" that, you must be aware, mean something completely, utterly, different to non-Muslim ears. And BTW, you do this again in the bolded passage above, when you say that this includes "legal equality" in an Islamic sense - but in fact this doesn't include the Western concepts of equality in the divorce courts, in terms of the worth of a woman's testimony in financial courts, or her inheritance rights in estate law.

I don't know if you deliberately omitted to explain the difference between your concept of "equality" and the Western idea of "equality" that you must know your readers are using as a reference point. Perhaps you assumed an explanation wasn't necessary.

However, are you really unable to see how your statements about "equality" would lead to 20 pages of clarification and quotes from the Quran and shariah, until we *finally* get to how your concept of "equality" differs from the Western idea of equality that everybody else here is using as a reference?

And why are we Islamophobes, just because you force us engage you for 20 pages before you finally spill the beans on your definition of equality?

These are some of the reasons we don't trust you or the other Muslim PP to "interpret" Islam for us.[/quote]

Hey, it's always the Muslim's fault, so why don't i take the blame if it makes you sleep better at night? :lol:  I did explain what equality meant some 100 pages ago, really I can't help it if you missed that! But wait a minute, since you studied under The World IslamicExpert, you should have known what equality meant in Islam, right? Or maybe The Islamic World Expert skipped that chapter, oh well.... According to the dictionary :
[quote]
??kwäl?d?/
noun
noun: equality
the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, and opportunities.
"an organization aiming to promote racial equality"
synonyms:	fairness, equal rights, equal opportunities, equity, e[/quote]

So yes to me, women and men are equal in front of God, they have different roles and responsibilities, just like in any society, so no I didn't expect a statement of equality to birth 20 pages of discussion about women's rights since such  equality was explained over and over again. And also, the difference in financial court, inheritance, ect was explained over and over again, I won't go through it one more time, if you didn't get it after studying with the World Islamic Expert, and after it's been discussed for over 20 pages, you just won't get it now......[/quote]

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