Reply to Be Wary of Racism and Islamophobes

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Muslima][quote=Anonymous]Let's do that last para again:

Bottom line: How does it promote understanding about what's going on in many moderate Muslim societies today, to leave people with the unmoderated statement that "Islam offers equality to women (again, a statement that one of you actually made), which is actually misleading in many contexts. And further, to claim that anybody who questions or doubts your statements about "Islam offers equality to women" is an "Islamophobe"?

I'm not afraid of the moderator. I disagree with him that defending underdogs means allowing any kind of BS you want to post to go completely unquestioned.[/quote]

Ok, I have ignored you for a long time but you keep repeating the same thing over and over and use "equality" at each corner. So, let me be clear. Equality doesn't mean X=Y. Equality means that in the face of Divine Law, both men and women are equal, i-e Allah judge all of His servants according to their deeds, not according to their gender. Men & Women practice the 5 pillars of Islam the same way. There isn't a special Quran for men and a special Quran for females. Men and women have the same religious and moral duties and responsibilities. They both face the same consequences or rewards of their deeds. [b]Both genders are entitled to equality before the law and courts of law. [/b]Justice is genderless.

Now, I already know what you are going to come back with. But a man can have 4 wives, a man's testimony is worth more than a woman's , women inherit less, yadi yadi yada, We've debated those over 20 pages in different threads, no need to rehash them once more. If you didn't get it then, you won't it now. It should be added that from an Islamic perspective, the roles of men and women are complementary and cooperative rather than competitive. Their roles and responsibilities in life are different because of their physical and emotional differences. We have different demands, different responsibilities ect. Righteousness determines the value of humans in Allah's sight.  It is not their gender or race, if you can't get that, well I can't help it. No need to have the same discussion with the same arguments 1000x, really![/quote]

No, here's what I'm going to come back with:

The fault is yours, for using words like "equality" that, you must be aware, mean something completely, utterly, different to non-Muslim ears. And BTW, you do this again in the bolded passage above, when you say that this includes "legal equality" in an Islamic sense - but in fact this doesn't include the Western concepts of equality in the divorce courts, in terms of the worth of a woman's testimony in financial courts, or her inheritance rights in estate law.

I don't know if you deliberately omitted to explain the difference between your concept of "equality" and the Western idea of "equality" that you must know your readers are using as a reference point. Perhaps you assumed an explanation wasn't necessary.

However, are you really unable to see how your statements about "equality" would lead to 20 pages of clarification and quotes from the Quran and shariah, until we *finally* get to how your concept of "equality" differs from the Western idea of equality that everybody else here is using as a reference?

And why are we Islamophobes, just because you force us engage you for 20 pages before you finally spill the beans on your definition of equality?

These are some of the reasons we don't trust you or the other Muslim PP to "interpret" Islam for us.[/quote]

Im not Muslima, I'm the other Muslim. I knew what she meant by using "equality," and now that shes clarifying, why don't you get off her back. And stop pretending that was the reason for the 20 pages. Even with her clarification, I suspect you will continue to post vile misfacts. [/quote]

1. What vile misfacts? Please nanme some.
2. While we can only be thrilled for you, that you understood Muslima, the WHOLE POINT is that NOBODY ELSE who isn't Muslim understood her particular definition is equality. As both you and Muslima know very, very well. 
3. It took 20 pages to get Muslima to define "equality." So what do you mean, we didn't need 20 pages to get here?[/quote]

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