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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]OP, if you wanted to work on your marriage but DH just decided not to and there was no abuse or substance abuse and he did this while you were supporting kids and household, get as much as you can from him. Don't go gently [/quote]

Yes op by all means be a leach.   Or put on your big girl pants like I did and work hard for your own money.  I can assure you it’s way more satisfying.  -a divorcee that didn’t take handouts.  [/quote]

As some have already said, it can be both. A woman is not a leech when she collects what is due to her. Marital property is not a handout. Or if it is like you claim, why does a man want a handout? It's like saying please loan me 10K and I'll pay you back... and when it's time to pay back, it's don't be a leech I want all the money for myself! The man can "work hard for his own money" once he's divorced and doesn't get free household work and childrearing. In fact if money was so important, he shouldn't have gotten married in the first place. Sure, perhaps then he wouldn't have had the opportunity to have children either, but he'd have his money! See how that works?! You don't get kids raised to adults and then kick the woman out to the curb when the work is done. [/quote]

You're arguing against a position nobody made.

Nobody said marital property is a handout. Most people support dividing marital assets. That's the $10,000 being repaid in your analogy.

The disagreement is over the additional the $100,000s paid over decades after the assets have already been divided and the marriage has already ended.

And your entire argument rests on an old stereotype: the selfless wife raising the children while the husband contributes little more than a paycheck.

That simply isn't reality for many families.

Millions of fathers work full time while also changing diapers, attending school events, coaching teams, helping with homework, cooking meals, cleaning the house, getting kids to appointments, and sharing custody after divorce. Pretending child rearing is something men merely receive from women is as outdated as claiming women belong in the kitchen.

Marriage isn't a pension plan. If two adults build a life together, they should divide the assets fairly when it ends. What many people object to is the idea that one capable adult is entitled to remain on the other's payroll for decades after the partnership is over.

By your logic, if money is so unimportant, why is lifelong access to someone else's income so important?
[/quote]

Just like the OP just said, it also accounts for lost income. If the woman is at home for 20 years, she lost 20 years of income and career advancement, and pension. If she divorces when she's 50-60, she cannot just waltz to a job as if nothing happened in-between. In the US, the system is set up like that. Men are able to earn a lot of money, but childcare is expensive, as is after-school care and health care. It's easy for you to say divide when it ends and bye! But you've worked continuously all this time, meaning not only did you earn money, you also advanced in your career. Were you to lose your job tomorrow, you most likely would find something else in 1-2 months. Not so if you've been out of workforce for 20 years. Have you helped your wife to find a career, maybe a VP in the company that you run? Start a business? Give her shares of your company? I bet if that was the case, she'd not need your alimony.

In Europe, things are set up differently. Almost nobody is able to earn so much, because taxes take a large proportion of the salary. But that means that schools, daycare, healthcare etc are free, as is university education for good students. [b]Men and women both work, because in order to have healthcare and pension, you have to earn your own, you cannot use your spouse's. [/b]But then kids are taken care of for free during the time that parents are at work. [/quote]

This. So many American women lament we don’t have free daycare and parental leave like European countries but don’t understand WHY they offer these benefits.

Most European women are truly on their own for healthcare and retirement. Many European men don’t share finances. Women are expected to support themselves and make do with government benefits. Women don’t step out of the workforce for decades, including the equivalent of UMC people. Instead you take whatever the government gives you and that’s that. [/quote]

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