Reply to More MOCO Upzoning - Starting in Silver Spring

Forum Index » Metropolitan DC Local Politics

Reply to "More MOCO Upzoning - Starting in Silver Spring"

Subject:

Emoticons





More smilies

Text Color: Font: Close Marks

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]If they want to drop the missing middle rezoning proposal and just do this one maybe that is a reasonable compromise, but upzoning everything is a bad idea. Vision zero is idiotic and unrealistic though. The goal of reducing traffic fatalities attainable, but we need to balance operational concerns with safety improvements. The only way to achieve basically zero traffic deaths would be to reduce speed limit to 15 mph everywhere. Ridiculous policy goals like vision zero will harm society more than it helps. [/quote]

How many deaths do you think it's worth for you to get somewhere 5 minutes faster in your car? How about 10 minutes faster in your car? Also, is it ok for people in your family to be killed or seriously injured in a car crash, or should car crash deaths and serious injuries be limited to people in other people's families?[/quote]

This is a childish argument.  Society needs to move and we try to keep people safe.  To keep EVERYONE safe, we can't use cars and trucks... or bikes... or even horses.  [b]Society can't control people who cross the street wearing black at night.  Society can't control everyone who drinks and drives.  Society can't stop every idiot who speeds, etc.[/b]  So, yes... in a society with many people and many making bad decisions, people are going to die in accidents.[/quote]

Society can use street lighting. Society can use ignition interlocks. Society can use speed governors. [/quote]

Umm… everything has a cost, including bad decisions.  You are being ridiculous.  [/quote]

The issue here obviously isn't that Vision Zero is unattainable. It's that you're not interested in attaining it. You're fine with people being killed in car crashes. Well, everyone gets to have their own opinions, and that includes you.[/quote]

Zero is obviously unattainable.  But the more sophisticated question is what are the details on the 40 deaths, plus those prior years.  You can't address a problem, assuming there is one, without more details here.  If only a few happened at red lights, then red lights are not the issue.   [/quote]

That data is readily available, courtesy of the police. They say that in 2022, there were 35 traffic deaths in DC which is about the same it is every year. Despite the billions poured into bike stuff and the endless reengineering of roads, traffic deaths don't actually change very much each year, especially when you consider there's billions of trips taken each year.

Here's the causes in 2022:

12 deaths -- pedestrian error
9 deaths -- driver speeding
4 deaths -- driver drunk/stoned/impaired
4 deaths -- driver error
2 deaths -- bicycle error
2 deaths -- medical emergency 
1 death -- scooter/atv/motorcycle error
1 death -- hit and run/unknown[/quote]

Your idea here seems to be: people make mistakes, therefore we shouldn't do anything to reduce the number of car crashes that kill people.

No wonder you don't like Vision Zero, which is based on this idea: humans make mistakes, but those mistakes shouldn't come with the death penalty.[/quote]

[b]Almost half the deaths are the fault of pedestrians, cyclists and other nondrivers. Maybe start there. [/b]

It's also not a great idea to tell drunk and stoned drivers that there are free to do whatever they like (which is the message our reliance on traffic cameras sends to them). If you've ever known anyone with substance problems, they know exactly what they can get away with and they will not think twice about driving when they can barely stand up. [/quote]

First of all, you're posting DC numbers, not Montgomery County numbers. Don't you have a thread about Connecticut Avenue bike lanes to post on?

Second of all, yes, starting there is the whole idea. Making sure that the streets are safe and convenient for pedestrians, bicyclists, and other non-drivers to use, and also making sure that even if pedestrians, bicyclists, and other non-drivers make a mistake, that mistake doesn't kill them. The great benefit of using this approach is that it actually makes streets safer for everybody, including drivers and passenger.

As a driver, I don't like the idea that it's ok for me to kill someone who was crossing when there was a don't walk sign, and most of my fellow human beings feel the same way.[/quote]
Can you post the Montgomery County numbers?[/quote]

Montgomery County has a whole Vision Zero website
https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/visionzero/ 
where you can find the information you're looking for.[/quote]
That is not a one for one comparison. What are the causes of the fatality accidents in Montgomery County?[/quote]

Motor vehicle speed.[/quote]

Options

	Disable HTML in this message
	Disable BB Code in this message
	Disable smilies in this message

Review message

Search Recent Topics Hottest Topics