Reply to Ethnic cleansing in Eastern Europe - when will the United Nations declare this a genocide?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The Russians are f!cking depraved animals. The soldiers should be shown no mercy. I'm part Jewish and I'd rather support Azov than an army full of demonic rapists and murderers. [/quote]

If Azov are Banderites (I would think not all of them, but some may be) and you are Jewish, I doubt you would be supporting them. The photos of their atrocities (systemic genocide of 100s of thousands of Poles and Jews during WW2) are actually out there and available, this is well documented and proven.  [/quote]

Azov is Banderites like the US military is Nazi - does Azov have some far right people - Nazi, Bandera or otherwise?  Yes. Every country does - US, Russia, Germany, France, Poland, etc.  Definitely not the majority or even a significant part of today’s Azov.  The guy who founded Azov left to start a political party, which was completely unsuccessful.

Yes, you are right that systematic killing of Jews and Poles did occur in WW2 - but that is not the responsibility of today’s Azov battalion.

[b]You are repeating Russian propaganda, which tries to paint the current Ukrainian state with the brush of WW2[/b].  If you want to do that, we should also discuss how Putin is basically the successor to the government that committed the Holodomor in Ukraine, and which is again cutting of vast numbers of civilians (in Mariupol for example) and depriving them of food and water and humanitarian passage out of the city to other areas of Ukraine. [/quote]

I was responding to a post that was relevant to the Jewish perspective, which does brush up on WW2 history, so, no need to scream Russian Propaganda. [b] I am not suggesting Putin has a foot to stand on pretending to liberate the world from Nazis[/b], THAT would be Russian propaganda.  I am pointing out that Azov does have nazi element, this is a different situation with closeted nazis in our army who aren't endorsed officially by our government, the fact that it is controversial isn't my invention.  It's been covered here before. Your response is a typical whataboutism.  If PP didn't mention Jewish perspective specifically I would not have brought it up.   [/quote]

Can you show where the Ukrainian gov't is endorsing the nazi element in the Azov battalion?[/quote]

Azov Battalion is a nationalist organization which is a part of Ukrainian army and is fighting on its behalf.  [b]Some [/b] in this and other nationalists factions are fans of Bandera and consider him a national hero.   It's not something you can just sweep under a rug,  it's an uncomfortable topic for the international community at large, especially for those of Jewish heritage. [b]This doesn't take away from this topic we are discussing here[/b], the atrocities of this unfair and horrible invasion and it doesn't imply that the entire Azov consists entirely of Banderites, so I am not sure why you are so defensive in acknowledging it.  [/quote]

DP, perhaps because you previous statements conflated Azov of today with Azov of 2014 with Bandera of WW2, inappropriately implying that all Azov today supported Bandera and Nazis, which is simply not true. You are backing down now and making it clear you are only talking about some.  Now you are trying to undermine the PP by describing her as “defensive” for simply asking for a cite to your prior comments in which you tried to say that the presence of US nazis in the US military is different from Ukraine because US Nazis are “closeted” and “not officially endorsed by our government”, implying that, by contrast, that Ukraine Nazis in Azov are uncloseted and endorsed by the Ukraine government.  PP is rightfully asking for a citation to support your contention.

The Ukraine government of today doesn’t support the “nazi element” in Azov or eleswhere.  To continue to argue and insinuate so is to reinforce one of the foundational myths of Putin’s rationale for war against Ukraine - that the Ukraine government supports Nazisim or are themselves Nazis.  This claim is absurd for many reasons.  And yet, the fact that you promulgate but then back off a bit when challenged and criticize your rhetorical opponents as “defensive” or “whataboutism” shows exactly how this kind of propaganda works.

For those that want a fact-based view of the relationship between Azov, Azov soldiers with Nazi beliefs and the Ukrainian government, please watch this 9 minute BBC piece by Ros Atkins.

[url]https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-60853404
[/url]

Why is this so important? [b]Because the claim of Ukrainian Nazi influence is the foundation of current Russian attempts at the genocide of Ukraine[/b].[/quote]

Where does the post you are responding to mention Nazi influence as the foundation of the current Russian attempts at the genocide? In fact, it argues against this.  Are you saying that if someone doesn't support Azov then they must support Russia?  If this is what you are referring to, then you need to use some logical thinking. There are 2 circles, not one circle in this Venn diagram.   You can be vehemently against Russia and pro-Ukraine, and yet not support Azov battalion just because they happen to fight for the good side in this war.   [/quote]

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