Reply to Which universities have gone DOWN in stature over the years?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]W&M is an obvious answer.

Ranking drop from 32 -&gt; 38.
Acceptance rate went from 33% to 42%, higher than large publics like UT Austin and UMD. While large publics like Berkeley are reaching single-digit acceptance rates, W&M's is increasing.

Student enrollment has increased.

Their law school has gone completely downhill.

W&M used to be more difficult to get into than UVA, due to a smaller number seats. It had higher SAT scores than UVA, the highest among publics comparable to Berkley. It was compared to the smaller Ivies like Dartmouth/Brown and SLACs like Swarthmore. It attracted out-of-staters and wealthy internationals that would never consider a large public for OOS tuition, but would consider W&M due to the size and feel.

Nowadays, UVA is far more tougher to get in, [b]has far higher SAT scores[/b] and far great national and international reach.[/quote]

Per most recent CDS:

UVA 25th/75th percentile SAT - 1330-1490
W&M 25th/75th percentile SAT - 1360-1520

b[b]oth have average GPAs of 4.3.[/b]

Perhaps W&M’s higher acceptance rate is a function of some other factor other than the caliber of students they attract.  Maybe since UVA and has more prominent sports and a better college town and is bigger it appeals to more kids who apply that are more borderline. W&M is bit more niche in that it a very small public, so more like a SLAC. Williamsburg is pretty sleepy too.

Maybe, just maybe, acceptance rate is not a good indication of how good a school is at any rate.[/quote]

NNo they don't., the GPA of the actual class that enrolled at UVA last fall had a 4.52 at the 75th percentile, a 4.39 at the median and a 4.23 for the bottom 25th percentile.  W&M's student profile runs lower:   4.50 at the 75th, 4.30 at the 50th and a 4.08 at the bottom 25th.

UVA also beats W&M wiht ACT scores, the 74th/50th/30th percentiles are [b]35/34/32 for UVA and for W&M the ACTSare 34/33/3[/b]1[/quote]

At the 75th percentile, SAT score/GPA is 1520/4.50 at W&M and 1510/4.52 at UVA.  [b]Virtually the same.[/b]  The difference in the last couple of years has been at the lower half, with UVA higher.  It used to be the opposite if you look at SCHEV historical data.  When W&M had higher average SAT scores than UVA, I did not think UVA is in decline.  I just think there are trends that play out over some period of time and then new trends emerge.  W&M needs to get more applicants to better fill out the bottom half stats.

In USNEWS rankings, both UVA and W&M have been hurt by the inclusion of the social mobility metrics based on Pell Grant recipients.  Both schools are relatively low in percentage of students receiving Pell Grants particularly compared to schools in other states like the UC universities.  Outside of that, the big movers in USNWR in my recollection have been private universities (Chicago, Vanderbilt, Northeastern, etc.)  They seem to have more levers to pull in rankings than public schools.[/quote]

They are not virtually the same.  UVA is higher in 8 categories than W&M. Also you conveniently didn't address the ACT issue.  ACT scores get exponentially more difficult to get closer to the top of the pyramid.  A 36 is achieved  by only 3,655 - 4,4,044 (changes every year) of the 1.6M taking the test, or .313% of the students taking it.  [b]A 35 is only 11,983 students .925% of test applicants nationwide.  The fact that the 75th percentile of enrolled student at UVA has a 35 or better is astounding[/b].  W&M can boast only a 34 taps into a different level below.  Here's the chart

ACT Score	# of Students	Percentage of All Test Takers
36	      4,055             	0.313%
35	     11,983	               0.925%
34	      15,875	      1.226%
33	    18,424	              1.422%[/quote]

Keep in mind that only about 20% of students at UVA submit the ACT (vs 50% for SAT) .  So 25% of that number scoring 35 or higher (75th percentile) could be as few as 210 students (out of the 16,000 or so nationally) for Fall 2021 class.[/quote]

+1. And that does not even factor in the kids who submitted both the SAT and the ACT.  I don’t have a dog in this hunts and don’t really care which is better. I’d be thrilled if DC got into either.  But for the PP dead set on proving UVA is far superior, I just don’t see it.  At margins based on pure stats, maybe slightly.  But W&M has its own advantages too.  [/quote]

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