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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I'll get the ball rolling

I'll listen if people take ownership for their behavior and quit playing the victim card
I'll listen if people quit blaming cops and blame the thugs and ghetto idiots of all races who cause all these problems

A quick caveat what happened in MN from initial reports is jacked up.  We need to wait until the final investigation to jump to any conclusions.
[/quote]

Ummm, when people are shot dead by the police after being stopped for a "routine" traffic stop I don't know how they are "playing the victim".  Aren't they an actual victim in that case?  Oh sorry, you must mean when the police make excuses that it is a difficult job so if they kill someone that has the same skin color as someone that has committed a crime even though the person they kill has not committed a crime and the person that has is still out there ...

I see a separate issue of being why do people commit a crime.  Understand, the individuals killed were not committing crimes ...that is exactly why people are protesting.  If the police had killed a violent criminal people you would not have this outrage.  I'm sorry if you don't see the difference.  I can't help you there.  But I guess if that is your criteria for "listening" that means you really don't want to listen.  As to why people commit crimes and how to reduce crime that is a different discussion.  IMHO, those issues aren't something that a single person can tackle.  Poverty, lack of opportunities, addictions, mental illness, easy access to weapons etc.  Yes, there is evil, yes there is greed and there will always be people in ideal situations that will still committ crimes.  But is there something that could have been done that could have influenced a person's trajectory so they wouldn't end up committing a crime ..don't know.  And could I, not related to this person in any way, have changed the outcome, tell me how?  But since your criteria for listening is for me to personally solve world peace, end poverty, end hunger, etc. again, I would argue you have no interest in listening.  Oh, and lest you think I am saying that the person that commits a crime shouldn't be held accountable, that is not what I am saying.  I'm saying at that point there is a victim (the victim of the crime), high odds the person will return to crime and have less opportunity to be a productive citizen meaning there will be later victims.  Accountability is a poor comfort for the person that has been a victim, better is figuring out how it could have been prevented.[/quote]

I think you are right for the most part but the problem is that the person whose death started the whole movement was Michael Brown, who was a violent criminal and who did attack the officer and whose whole narrative of "hands up" was based off a blatant lie by his "friend". And then criminals and thugs took his death and these lies as an excuse to lootand burn down a mostly black middle class town and destroy the lives and businesses of a lot of black middle class business owners.

A lot of people see this as the poster child and identity of the movement.[/quote]

I see the movement as a culmination of many stories.  If it had just been Michael Brown it would not have been a movement, just an incident.  I also think BLM started with Trayvon Martin and the "stand your ground law".  There is a long list of names and these are just the case that have been publicized and perhaps had videos, not the ones that haven't.   I would also say that for example with the Rolling Stone sexual assault article that turned out to be false - that didn't mean that there weren't victims of sexual assault that had their cases mishandled on college campus and that people speaking out shouldn't continue trying to fight for progress and change.

I am not a GWB fan by any means but he was spot on when he said "to often we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions".   It is very easy to point to the worst example.  Have you heard people say they don't support the right to life because people that also support that cause have bombed abortion clinics? In fact, I will go a step further that you can be on opposite sides of the issue and agree that the people that bomb clinics are wrong.  By your admission BLM movement should be discounted because perhaps one story among dozens wasn't accurate and a few people among how many peaceful protestors were looking for trouble.  Interesting.[/quote]

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