Reply to European Parliament Elections Going Far Right

Forum Index » Political Discussion

Reply to "European Parliament Elections Going Far Right"

Subject:

Emoticons





More smilies

Text Color: Font: Close Marks

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I'm in Germany right now and I can see a constant, uneasy standoff between ethnic Germans and the new arrivals from Arab nations. During the Spain/Germany soccer game last night, about a dozen police in riot gear were standing across the street from a döner restaurant, ready for action. And it was clear that action had already occurred, as one man was watching the game with bloody tissue stuffed up his nose and nursing a puffy cheek. There were no police outside of the restaurants with white and East Asian clientele.

Around 1030am this morning, a man walked around the downtown area holding a blue bottle of liquor, pausing occasionally to pick up entire metal trash cans (the public type for pedestrians) and heaving them to and fro. Police showed up-- lots of them-- and arrested him.  Watching the scene unfold, a random German mam turned to us and said "if they kicked these people out, we wouldn't have these problems."

It occurred to me that in the US, no police would show up for fights or public disturbances. And no way, ever, would police wait outside a restaurant frequented by an ethnic minority. No matter what was happening there. Germans are orderly people and absolutely will not stand for this kind of hooliganism.  We are much more tolerant of crime and tend to support perpetrators over victims. So I get why Europe is taking such a sharp right ward turn. This is completely upsetting their culture of order, safety, and respect. [/quote]

I’m not sure what to make of your post aside from the fact you have made overarching observations based on just two incidents.  You’re in Germany during the euros and there are riot police and tensions? Are you not at all aware of the long history of hooliganism and soccer in Europe? Of course the police are ready for trouble. You clearly didn’t see the pictures of the violent clashes between Serbs and English fans. It’s the biggest deployment of police since 1951!

You also seem unaware that doners are the most popular snack food in Germany. Everyone goes to them, not just ‘ethnics’.  Exactly the sort of place hyped up and aggressive soccer fans will get something to eat after a match. Not surprising police might have been nearby. Probably not a lot action at the Chinese takeaway.

You mention tension with new arrivals. Who exactly do you mean? You realise about 5% of the population is Turkish and many are 4th or 5th generation? Many Turks Wenge  too Germany as migrant workers in the 1960s.  Or you mean the Syrian refugees admitted by Angela Merkel. Can you even tell the difference?

Be careful about extrapolating from a couple of incidents when you don’t actually have a good understanding of a place.

[/quote]

I have quite a long history with Germany. Re-read my post. The police were stationed in front of döner spots, and the clientele during this game was indeed almost entirely Arab. The police WERE NOT outside of the restaurants with ethnically German and/or East Asian clientele. They weren't. I saw this with my own eyes, and you're free to disbelieve that but you can't tell me I didn't see what I saw.

As you point out, the Turks have been in Germany for generations and cannot be considered new arrivals. The Turkish population has assimilated. I am instead referring to the nearly 25% of Germany's population with an immigrant background in the traditional sense (not 3rd or 4th generation guest worker sense).  The most common nation of origin for immigrants to Germany is Syria.

I'm not making generalizations based on one experience. I'm making them based on a palpable vibe shift that has occurred over the course of a decade, which I've observed both in person and in discussions with ethnically German relatives and friends.

You can cover your eyes and pretend this isn't happening, like people pretended that Biden has the youth and vigor of a much younger man. It doesn't change it. Europe is, without question, taking a dramatic swing to the right, and they are telling you why.  You can believe they are unjustified, but they live in democracies and get to have a say on the issues in their nations. [/quote]

And also, take a context clue. I said the man said to us "if they kicked these people out, we wouldn't have this problem."  In Germany. So he spoke to us in German with the assumption that we were German. This should tell you that I don't need to be lectured about döners. [/quote]

What you say may well be valid and I also happen to believe that rapid large scale immigration can be problematic, but giving the example of one ‘ethnic’ man tipping over bins, riot police outside a doner place and one ‘native’ complaining about migrants is far from a compelling argument. Whether he complained in English or German is irrelevant. I guarantee I could produce one old guy in just about any country who will complain about migrants. It just seems like you’re cherrypicking a couple of incidents to substantiate your own opinions. [/quote]

It seems like you're ignoring data. You know the right is ascending in Europe. They are telling us why. And my own observations match the data.

You're in complete denial. Upthread, someone responded to my post by saying that they hope that the Arabs wipe out the ethnic Germans. It's unclear why you think that Europeans will sit idly by while people literally plot and hope for their genocide. Europe is famous for its ability to aggressively expand and dominate; that has been its historical tendency. I'm guessing that the genocide of Europeans will not be as easy as you expect.

Also, let's be completely clear. You, and only you, have referred to the Arabs as "ethnics."  [/quote]

It will be interesting to see results of today’s election in France. Not sure the data supports your argument as much as you think. In the last six months, 2 of the 6 largest countries in Europe have elected pro-EU (Poland) or labour (UK) governments. [/quote]

The UK is not European. They aren't a part if the continent and their brief foray into political membership in the EU was cut off in a democratic referendum.

Poland is also an edge case. Of course they want to be as close to Europe as possible-- their lives depend on it. What's happening in central Europe is entirely different. [/quote]

Hate to inject some facts but (a) there’s no such thing as political membership of the EU (you’re either in or out) and (b) the UK was a founding and continuing member for 47 years.

I guess if the UK isn’t European then Japan, Taiwan, Indonesia, etc aren’t Asian. Someone should tell them. [/quote]

No one needs to tell the UK they aren't European. They don't consider themselves European.  Your analogy makes no sense, so I'll give you a better one. Is Australia also Asian? No?

There is such thing as being politically a member while not culturally or geographically. This is why Turkey is a NATO nation. They aren't European, they are a close ally to Russia, and the people who pretend they are geopolitically European are insane. [/quote]

Priceless. So Turkey’s a cultural member of a military alliance. Is Canada a cultural member too?

[/quote]

Are you suggesting Byzantium does not belong to Europe’s cultural heritage? Do you not know the Roman Empire was ruled from Constantinople for several centuries? You do know that part of Turkey lies to the west of Georgia and much of Russia, right? You do know that part of Turkey is oart of the European continent, right?[/quote]

Options

	Disable HTML in this message
	Disable BB Code in this message
	Disable smilies in this message

Review message

Search Recent Topics Hottest Topics