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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]More evidence says high school performance is the strongest indicator. [/quote]

Says the parent whose kid has a 4.4 GPA and is a “bad test taker.” LOL[/quote]

:lol:  :lol:  Yep.  The "bad test taker" crowd will be out in full force dissing that dean fella! That's the only outcome they can't buy their way to, so they don't want it but pretend it helps the 'underprivileged' they pretend to care about.  :lol:  :lol: [/quote]

Nope - My DC had both very high test scores and GPA that they worked very hard for. They won awards in STEM field at undergrad and post grad level but their supervisor pointed out it was their work ethic that set them apart.

I place much more store by consistent hard work ethic: Unsurprisingly, credible studies support that GPA is much more important than test scores for predicting future college success.  [/quote]

Yes--it's the work ethic that will get you much further in life as well.  I'll take a 3.9+ GPA kid with a 1400 anyway over a 1600/3.75 gpa kid who didn't see the need to complete assignments on time/do the work needed to earn As in HS (or college).  Strong work ethic and a smart person will go further than a smart person who only wants to work if it interests them. [/quote]

[/b]You’ll “take that kid” because that’s your kid.[b]

The on-the-ground difference between a ~ 3.9 and a ~ 3.75 can be explained by so many minor factors as to render the difference materially irrelevant.

By way of example, what if the latter kid took 4 honors classes that his school didn’t weight, finishing with a B grade but an average of 89.4 in those classes. Meanwhile, another kid took those same 4 classes, but the less accelerated, less intensive college prep. versions, and finished with an A grade but an average of 90.2 in those classes.

Are you seriously going to try to convince others that the kid who took the honors classes with a 1600/36 on one-and-done testing has less capacity than your kid who took the CP classes with a 1450/33 on a super scored basis across five test dates?
[/quote]

The best part of your “smart person” label is that you literally dismissed the material difference in cognitive abilities reflected in 200 SAT points but are unwilling to do the same for .15 grade points, or else attribute any difference to work ethic.

Again, you can only justify taking the substantially lower test score kid because that’s your kid. If your kid had produced a one-and-done 1600/36, you would be singing an entirely different tune.[/quote]

DP - my DC was a one and done very high scores on SAT, ACT and SAT subject tests. However, I still think that that their high GPA for difficult subjects over 4 years was the single biggest predictor for their highly Successful undergrad and post grad journy.

I also think that it is common sense that students from disadvantaged backgrounds or experiences may not be able to afford SAT and ACT tests and prep work. I believe it is in all our interests to reduce barriers to college entry for students who face much greater challenges getting there.
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The best SAT prep resources (past exams) are free. The good prep books (college panda, Erica meltzer, orange book, studylark) are relatively cheap, and free if your resort to piracy. Lastly, KhanAcademy has a great question database[/quote]

No they're not. Better than what was previously available for free? Yes. Best? Nope. I taught test prep. Not all materials (even practice tests) are equal. There are better materials and formats (class and tutoring are more effective than self study). But, the Khan stuff is a good start.  For a disciplined kid, I would also buy Kallis (good explanations and practice tests) and Princeton Review (some good strategy, research and practice tests). But, some kids will really benefit from a class or one-on-one format. [/quote]

Lower middle classs parent again -- the practice tests you can take on college board are old SAT tests (mostly, a couple are tests that weren't used, but you can see on reddit which were used).  The Khan program is adaptive, so you you link your practice test/college board and Khan and the student gets practice questions in an area they need to work on. And if you're still confused, there are a few YouTube videos that run through it all.

Sure, a 5k one-on-one format is better, but that's true with [b]everything[/b] from AP exams to college counseling to athletic coaches.  I found the SAT to be the area where self-studying had a lot more options than other areas.  A reason these semi-shady college counseling TikTok accounts are so popular now is because there's a big black hole of information about summer programs (talk about inequitable), etc and not super resourced kids know there's a lot they don't know. And it's off to reddit or TikTok. The SAT was straightforward in comparison. A half hour of Khan a night and my kids did great.[/quote]

Bravo to your DC - that is good news they did well in SAT using Khan academy. Agree about TikTok .

However, FYI many disadvantaged students don’t even have the luxury of internet access.

An average of 12.22% of households across the 50 states don't have internet access. Many because they can't afford it or because there are no providers in their area.

[/quote]

Yep, which is why my own kids did it on their phones.  I live in NYC where 1 in 9 kids are homeless.  (this is stat is a little overstated, because it usually means they're living w extended family not on the street, but .. it's not great).  My kids went to title 1 schools. We know plenty of kids in shelter, which has wifi but it's not great.  We were all giving cell enabled iPads during covid, which are kinda helpful.  We have internet at home, but it's not great and it's slow (speeds under 100 mbps up and down, sometimes it's around 20).  But phones work and most of the kids in HS have phones.  In fact, this is what enables a lot of people to skip the expense of broadband at home.  Libraries and schools have better wifi (usually).

I realize it's harder in rural areas, but I think this entire line of argument is a red herring. I can talk about the inequity in our schools system, the waste, the lack of art and music, the drugs in the schools (there were overdoses in middle school - literally in class), the insane system of even getting into MS and HS here, the lack of school-based athletics, the zero college counseling.  But the SAT?  A phone and a book from the library leveled the playing field for us.  The other institutionalized systems of inequality were not so easily overcome.

Colleges admissions is based on college tours (not happening), essays (this is really a black hole for us, no help but felt a lot better than the kids who didn't even speak English til they got here in 6th grade and their parents speak no English), list building (really a black hole), the GPA (4 math teachers one year, a random C on the report card nobody could track down and nobody would fix for us)  .. and the big one: the price.  This part is totally insane. The NPC is a big help and a lot of people don't realize it hasn't even been around for that long (wasn't for my oldest), but it's still very hard to manage this when you have no money and the price tag is enormous. I don't think white MC families would put up with a programs like Questbridge and Posse if it was their kids. It's so involved and frankly at times bizarre.

Anyway, the SAT was fine in comparison. We understood it. The Brooklyn public library is great with prep books and internet. I just don't think rural and poor urban kids have an equitable chance at any of it. But testing was the least of it.  those college panda books were great and you can get those anywhere.

I think TO helps the kids who go to suburban or private schools with a ton of grade inflation so they go TO with that 1300, their mom "edits" the essay, they spend 5k on summer programs and another 15k on hockey over the years and they land at Dartmouth.  But sure, let's keep it bcs of the poors.[/quote]

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