Reply to Asians are NOT the model minority: the Affirmative Action Chess Game

Forum Index » College and University Discussion

Reply to "Asians are NOT the model minority: the Affirmative Action Chess Game "

Subject:

Emoticons





More smilies

Text Color: Font: Close Marks

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote] Can you explain how Asian Americans can claim discrimination in college admissions but are overrepresented on most college campuses relative to their U.S. population? [/quote]

Easy. If they are 30% of the elite college population but would be 60% on the basis of merit, then they have been discriminated against.[/quote]

Merit as defined by you, you mean.

What Harvard is way more interested in than GPA and test scores is who's going to be a future leader in a realm that will be sure to garner Harvard lots of attention and potentially money. Some of that comes from being smart and hard-working, but there's much more to it than that.

Asians are not being discriminated against.[/quote]

Merit as defined by Harvard itself, actually.

So you think Asians, who excel in extracurriculars as well as grades, lack "future leadership potential"? They just don't have that extra je ne sais quoi on top of their intelligence and grades? The only reason to think this is... racism.

Asians are being discriminated against by racists just like you.[/quote]

You should really be more judicious in your use of the term 'racist'. I was dating women of Asian descent and studying Asian languages because I love the culture before you were born probably.

Nothing in my statement said that I don't believe those with Asian ancestry can be leaders--you just inferred it incorrectly. But Harvard, which examines each application very carefully, chooses who they will make great leaders. Almost all are extremely bright and hard-working, but those that aren't have something beyond that. Students who aren't chosen, regardless of background, don't have as much of what they're looking for as those they do choose.[/quote]

Is it possible that “what they’re looking for” is inherently racist against Asians? Sure maybe less of our kids play golf and squash and have experience speaking with other social elites, but what else is missing other than something that is a function of wealth and status (which some of these colleges are supposed to help with)? We are not against affirmative action but we are displeased with what is currently happening to Asians in admissions - when my daughter applied two years ago with perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc. we were somewhat disappointed with the results. Most of the ivies didn’t accept her, and she also got some surprising rejections and waitlists from other schools she thought were “realistic.” And we don’t believe her writing or recommendations were the issue either - her teachers loved her, and her essays were reviewed several times by other teachers and professionals. Luckily she was able to get into UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Duke, and Johns Hopkins among other good options but we were told she should be very competitive for the likes of Harvard, MIT, Princeton given her level of awards and leadership. She’s happily at Duke (and very involved with their Asian community) but now we’re being extra cautious for our son applying this year.[/quote]

Your daughter got into 3 ivies and Duke, that’s still amazing![/quote]

The poster said she had "perfect tests and grades, high level of leadership, international awards, etc." How is it amazing that she got into the schools she did? What else is she supposed to have done better? Could a different last name have helped at all?

It is discouraging that she wasn't able to get into the school of her choice. She should have been able to get in anywhere with such credentials and glowing letters of recommendations. The fact that she did not is what is "amazing" to me here.[/quote]

Here's some fun math for you:

- 27,000 or so HS in the USA
- About 15,000 freshmen at ivies each year

So, even if they took the #1 student at each high school in America, about 12,000 kids will get shut out.

Add Stanford and MIT and still about 9,000 shut out.

This doesn't account for athletics, or #2 students at HS that are better than other vals, and other hooked candidates.

The problem is not that underserving minorities are taking this kid's spot.

The problem is you don't understand math. [/quote]

Here's some fun math for you. In 2021, the students who scored 1400 to 1600 on the SAT were:
45,146 Asian
103 Native American
1,685 Black
7,042 Hispanic
90 Hawaiian
50,839 White
6,046 Two or more races

Thus we would expect the proportions of each race at elite universities to be 
Asians 45% 
Whites 49%
Blacks 1.6%
Hispanics 6.8%
Two races 5.8%

But it's not even close to this. In elite universities it's more like
Asians 25%
Whites 35%
Blacks 8%
Hispanics 15%
Multiracial 6%

It should be obvious that Asians are very underrepresented, whites are somewhat underrepresented, and blacks and Hispanics are overrepresented. But you don't see this. The problem is you don't understand math. Or you're a racist. Or both.[/quote]

You are not reading properly, and not seeing what post was responded to.  You wasted all those words!  I was replying to the person astounded that a single kid was only admitted to 3 ivies and duke, and not HYPSM, and was showing how that kid actually overcame the odds to great victory, rather than was stymied.

Not gonna get into the race argument with you, but WRT SAT you know even when it is used it is used as a qualifier, not a ranker.  Once applicants are qualified they are equal, and admissions offices do not consider a 1580 student better than a 1560.  Because that would be stupid.

It's also not the only criteria for admission, which you also know.

As for my personal opinion, I think the colleges should get to decide as long as they do not break the law.  If Harvard wanted to be 100% Asian but did not break the law I would not care.[/quote]

PP here. For what it’s worth, our daughter was waitlisted at both Harvard and Princeton but did not get off either waitlists, so she was “close.” But overall we were pleased that she got into 3 ivies and Duke still - Duke was one of her top 5 or so choices, and the only schools she would have picked over Duke are Harvard, Stanford, MIT, and maybe Princeton. She was waitlisted at Columbia and rejected from Yale, but would have picked Duke over both (she didn’t stay on the Columbia waitlist and did not care much for Yale).[/quote]

Accepted to Duke, UPenn, Dartmouth, Cornell, Johns Hopkins and waitlisted at Harvard, Princeton, and Columbia? Share some tips with us! Your daughter is a rockstar and I promise not getting into Harvard won’t meaningfully affect her life! It sounds like she’s thriving at Duke![/quote]

Thank you for the kind words! She was very self-motivated so we never had to force her to do much, although we did always hold high standards for her. We tried to keep her busy as a child and help her stay engaged with productive activities (limits on screentime as well), and when she got into high school we hardly had to keep track of her! I think these habits have served her well at Duke too![/quote]

Options

	Disable HTML in this message
	Disable BB Code in this message
	Disable smilies in this message

Review message

Search Recent Topics Hottest Topics