Reply to China Retaliates Against the U.S. With Its Own Higher Tariffs

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
Not PP. But I've been watching the thread. You do have a chip on your shoulder and you simply can't take any appreciation of another person or reasonable criticism of you. The PP did come with lot of good points and another PP called those points refreshing and deep. What is your problem?  You are always on the attack without reading fully or even bothering to understand it objectively. [/quote]

You are right that I am a bit sensitive to topics relating to trade/political disputes between China and US. This is because I've lived extensively in both countries and currently conducts trade between the two. I visit China often and have many contacts over there that I communicate with on a daily basis. So when I see people who obviously have no understanding of the facts, and no grasp of logic/reason, I want to share what I know and reasons why I feel the way that I do about these topics. I readily take criticism if it is valid - this is an anonymous forum so I can't look up my post history, but I've made posts in the past for the sole purpose of admitting that I was wrong about something and thanking a PP for sharing information that was new to me. That said, there has been nothing convincing about what the PP has shared in this thread with regards to his/her views on China that I haven't heard of from other similarly ill informed people who have a strong urge to share their ignorance with the world.

Lets get back to substance - what are some of these good points that you think the PP has made? Lets just grab one of these attempts:

[i]"Like I said, America has freedom to own guns that kil themselves, their family or commit mass murder. We do have freedom to be addicted by opioids pushed by powerful corporations. We dont have freedom to send our kids to good schools or have easy and free access to universal healthcare. We ofcourse don't have any freedom to fight against the rich and corporations for our own benefit. How is it any different. Our freedom is a self propagated myth. The rich have the freedom to do what they want, the rest of us have limited freedom to harm ourselves but otherwise we just do what the rich, corporations and political class ALLOW US to do. "[/i]

This is so devoid of rationality that I didn't feel it needed a rebuttal when I first read it, but since some of you find it "insightful", "thought provoking", and "refreshing"...

First the PP is conflating two different concepts of freedom as is commonly used when discussing the role of man in organized society and his relationship with the government. The freedom for someone to act in their selfish interest so long as they are not infringing on the ability of others to do the same is a fundamental negative right. Other negative rights are exemplified by the freedom to own guns, or to commit suicide. The PP conflates these negative freedoms with positive freedoms, which are those that require the action of others to fulfill. For example, the freedom to send a kid to a good school obligates others to create a good school and allow the kid to enroll; the freedom to free access to healthcare obligates others to work to provide the healthcare and to subsidize the cost of it. Positive freedoms and negative freedoms are entirely different in concept and are not directly comparable yet the PP does exactly this.

Second, since the PP does not seem to understand the distinction between negative and positive freedoms, it's not surprising that he confuses the relative importance of the two classes of freedoms. In general, negative freedoms are regarded as fundamental, such as the natural right to life, liberty, and property. All liberal democracies identify and explicitly protect these basic negative freedoms in their national law, such as the US constitution. The recognition of negative freedoms as fundamental dates back to the Magna Carta and is included in various international law and conventions on human rights. Without negative rights, one can't possibly begin to talk about positive freedoms that the PP is advocating for. In fact, it is an on-going debate whether positive freedoms are even desirable since it obligates others to perform some action, and such action may infringe on other's fundamental negative freedoms. For the PP to call negative freedoms as "self propagated myth" is to demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of the nature of rights.

Third, the PP clearly makes some false accusations of rights in the US. No one has the right to kill their family or commit mass murder. People in the US have the right to fight against the rich and corporations for our own benefit, both in a negative sense and a positive sense: they are not prevented by anyone to file lawsuits against rich people or corporations, and they can direct the government to work on their behalf to legislate taxes, oversight, and regulations against rich people and corporations.

So in summary, the PP clearly demonstrated a lack of understanding of what freedoms are, and makes some flatly false statements. I didn't believe that this warranted a rebuttal, or even acknowledgement. Yet somehow, for some segment of DCUM readers, PP is regarded as "insightful". Look, I've now gone through and debunked four claims made by the PP, first with regards to Web 2.0, then high speed rail, then the success of Chinese companies like Alibaba (especially in contrast to American competitors), and now the nature of freedoms. On each and every single one of these, my challenge to the PP's glaring display of ignorance went unanswered. So unless some semblance of an effort is made to substantively counter what I've written, I'll regard this as a lost cause and won't engage further. [/quote]
Thank you for posting your first hand experiences and observations on this forum. We desperately need to hear your highly valuable insight. [/quote]

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