Reply to What do you think is the origin behind men always being expected to make the first move, ask the woman out?

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[quote=Anonymous]This tradition exists because of patriarchy, but also if you really don't like it, then look for women who also don't like it.

My DH and I were pretty equal in pursuing each other. For instance, when we met, I got his email address (told him I wanted to send him info about an event I was involved with coming up) but he did not ask for my info. On the other hand, he was the first to actually suggest we go out. I think he paid for our drinks the first night? But then our second date was a picnic and I bought all the food for it. And so on. It was really pretty equal and I know my DH doesn't feel like he had to do all the work, at all. We agree to get married, no one asked anyone (and no parents involved at all).

My experience dating is that many men HATE women who are more forward and involved in the courtship process. They view it as stepping on their toes. They like to control how those early dates go. Often, their ego is injured by the suggestion that we split a check or take turns paying. I dated many guys like this. Once. And then moved on because obviously we weren't right for each other. My DH didn't care and I think liked that we kind of took turns. He's always said he likes how even things feel between us.

I think the problem is that men who don't want to be the initiators often want the women who like men to be the initiators. It's really about power and control. Men want the women who seem less available and interested because it's an ego thing -- those women seem more high value to them because the subscribe to very traditional ideas about women and value. BUT they find the idea of pursuing these women demeaning -- why should they have to chase?

So really, you want it both ways. You want a traditional woman who plays this game to prove that she is of higher value, but then you want her to pursue you so that you don't have to do the work AND you can feel wanted.

If you were actually willing to meet women halfway, you'd find women who also like meeting halfway. But you'd probably deem them lower value because they would seem too available to you, and you've been conditioned to believe that worthy women are hard to get.

Sorry about that? Prison of your own making.[/quote]

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