Reply to Can we stop referring to households making $200 or 300K a year as "middle class"?

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Reply to "Can we stop referring to households making $200 or 300K a year as "middle class"?"

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
I don't get it. What is "middle class" if not a lifestyle? [b]If you live in a modest home and send your kids to public school and drive a Hyundai and save for retirement and college and don't expect to ever live off your "wealth," what are you?[/b] Housing, child care, and student loans eat up an enormous amount of money. I think it's BS to say that someone living in a 4,000 sq. ft new house on two acres outside of Houston and driving two new European cars on a $150K salary is 'middle class' but someone living in a 1,500 sq ft 60-year-old Cape on 1/5 acre in south Arlington and driving two Hondas on $300K is 'upper class.'[/quote]

We're doing this on 90k.  What are you doing wrong?[/quote]

So your mortgage is $4000 with a takehome of $7500 before taxes?  How do you do that on $90k?[/quote]

Different PP here.  The point is that while you live a middle class lifestyle that is only because you have chosen to commit a large part of your income to luxuries.  You can do the same in a house with a $2000 mortgage, but you choose to live in an area where the housing prices are higher, probably because of a strong public school system.  That is a luxury, one that the true middle class cannot afford.  You chose more expensive child care because you had the means to do so, that's a luxury.  Most true middle class cannot afford an expensive nanny or daycare center.  If they don't have extended family to watch their children, they choose a less expensive in-home daycare or perhaps a non-resident nanny/babysitter who they can pay less. [b] The middle class cannot afford to buy in Arlington[/b], cannot afford daycare centers and make a number of other sacrifices that you don't have to make because you are not middle class.  You may not be rich, but you are affluent, e.g. above upper middle class.  In Arlington, the middle class is around $75K to $150K, so upper middle class is around $125-150K.  You make more money than 95% of the area, so you aren't middle of anything other than middle of the top 10% of annual incomes in your region.  You spend it on luxuries so you don't have as much disposable income, but you still get to spend it on things that the true middle class cannot afford.[/quote]

Did you read my post? I said I live in a small, old house on a tiny lot and drive older, cheaper cars. Other people, who make what you consider a middle class salary but live in a place with a lower cost of living, can actually afford many luxuries that people living around DC cannot, including much better housing. I'm not saying I'm scraping by. But our standard of living is not really better -- [b]unless you are seriously arguing that living in Arlington is in and of itself a "luxury"[/b] -- than what people would consider "middle class."

Again, the daycare example--just because it costs more here doesn't mean its better. The center-based daycare in an old church basement that my kids went to here costs almost twice as much as the one my in-laws send their kids to, which is in a brand-new building. I have to spend way more of my income to get the same thing that people in other parts of the country get for half the price. If I make more money than someone who meets your definition of middle class, but I have to pay more for housing, day care, gas, food etc because of where I live so I end up in the same place, why am I "upper class" and they are "middle class"? [/quote]

Did you read my post?  Yes, when you live in a more desirable area, then by supply and demand, the price and costs are higher.  Arlington is more desirable than Burke or Springfield or Newington because it is closer in.  The commute into DC is much shorter and people who work downtown will pay a premium to be closer to work.  You are competing with people who want the convenience of living closer to work downtown who make more money and can drive the prices up.  If you made $125K could you afford even your tiny house in Arlington?  No.  Once again, living in a high cost of living area like Arlington is a luxury.  You complain about having a small church basement daycare that is more expensive than a exurban daycare in a brand-new building.  But the point is that only people that can afford that expensive part of town for a small house and a church basement daycare can even consider living there.  There is no way that a true middle class person can even consider buying a home in Arlington and being able to afford childcare in that area.

You spend your money on the convenience of living close to DC and especially if you live in N Arlington, for the benefit of good schools, too.  You have the means to choose that (or choose to go for more bang for the buck somewhere cheaper).  The true middle class has fewer options and those do not include what you have chosen.[/quote]

Fine, but you're saying that [i]choice[/i] and [i]time[/i] (time not spent commuting) are what I'm spending my money on. Those aren't tangible luxuries, which are what people usually cite when they think of someone with a higher income ("you could just go to Starbucks less often" "you don't need to drive a Mercedes"). I don't go to Starbucks or drive a Mercedes, but I have a 30-minute commute. There is a big disconnect between how people perceive that income and what it actually buys you in a high cost of living area. [/quote]

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