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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Muslima][quote=Anonymous][quote=Muslima][quote=Anonymous]Muslima, it is interesting that you cited the French law against the burka (if I understand the law prohibit the wearing in public of the full veil that totally covers the face). I am from Italy, and a law like that has been in existence for ever, well before that anybody could even think that Muslims could one day live in Italy.  simply the government did not want to have people go around with faces totally covered to a point that they could not be recognized.  as for the burka, I am not an expert but the Quran apparently does not say anywhere  that women need to cover themselves like that. it simply says that they need to dress "modestly".  "modesty" obviously changes with times and places. one hundred years ago my grandma told me that women in Italy would not weak pants because it would be considered scandalous, now they do. you can dress modestly in France as much as you want. however if you feel the need to put a blanket on your body and leave two holes for your eyes, maybe you should consider moving to Yemen, where your idea of modesty is more generally shared.  decades ago women in Arab countries in North Africa (except for the Arab peninsula) did not weak the burka.  now more women do it.  this has nothing to do with modesty, but unfortunately with oil money that has allowed a strict interpretation of Islam by a few millions of backward uneducated desert dwellers to be shoveled down the throats of other Muslims [/quote]

The issue is not whether the burqa is mandatory or not in Islam. The question is  why are women, French citizens nonetheless who freely choose to wear a Burqa because they believe it is their religious right/freedom to dress that way, do not have the right under French Law to do so?And this, since 2010? So you have these Niqabis who were living in France prior to 2010 who suddenly have to change the way they dress or else be fined every single day? If we are talking about Freedom of Speech, then why aren't they allow to dress they way they choose fit? Why the double standard?[/quote]

Women do NOT get to choose whether to wear a burqa or not.  It is imposed on them by their family and social pressures.  Just like affirmative action, gov needs to work to change society for the greater good.  [/quote]

You are delusional if you believe that ALL women who wear burqas do so because it is imposed on them by their family and social pressure . Also, Muslim women can NOT wear a hijab in public schools, universities, or government buildings. This has not just created a big divide in the community but also forced a lot of women to lose their jobs since they couldn't wear their scarves at work. You can not defend Freedom of Speech and then say hum no, doesn't apply to these women. These bans  have also created socio-economic issues as well for the Muslim population in France. It is a fact that France prisons are disproportionally filled with Muslims. Muslims are about 8-10% in France but  represent 60% -70% of Prisoners.

[quote]Muslim leaders, sociologists and human rights activists argue that more than in most other European countries, government social policies in France have served to isolate Muslims in impoverished suburbs that have high unemployment, inferior schools and substandard housing. This has helped create a generation of French-born children with little hope of social advancement and even less respect for French authority. [/quote][/quote]

This really cracks me up. They show up dirt poor, with no skills, and a general unwillingness to assimilate; they have large families, and in spite of living off an exceedingly generous welfare state, they complain that they're poor. Schools have to implement a national curriculum that's the same everywhere. I have a friend who teaches in one of these tough schools that Muslim leaders bemoan--she has talked on more than one occasion about how little the kids are interested in learning and how disheartening that is. Poverty leads to crime--no wonder there are so many of them in prison. What an unusual concept.

I had to wear the hejab as a kid for a passport photo before I was naturalized because I had hit the magic age at which a little girl needs to show modesty in my native country, and I couldn't get a passport otherwise. I remember being completely mortified at having to put it on and so relieved when I was able to burn that passport. [b]As for the niqab, women who want to wear it shouldn't have unrealistic expectations that they'll be assimilated, befriended, or hired for jobs. We are humans, and we like to relate to one another on the basis of personal relationships. Facial expressions are key in that. I find it very difficult, disturbing in fact, to try to relate to someone who won't show me her face, just as I'd react with someone who wears sunglasses all the time and won't show his/her eyes. It's just reality. You can't have your cake and it eat too.[/b]

[/quote]

+1 [raised Muslim, now atheist poster][/quote]

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