Reply to Is FCPS ending advance math for students who are not in AAP?

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Reply to "Is FCPS ending advance math for students who are not in AAP?"

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It was the year 2000.  But that just proves my point.  Many ideas and reforms aren't novel new ideas, they are updates/reboots/refined versions of older ideas.  So flexible groupings were the status quo in the 80's to 90's, the pendulum moved away from that.  We then saw things like balanced literacy and "new" math.  Things seem to move further left with the equity focus, etc.  Are we starting to go back towards the center?[/quote]

So last century.

Flexible groupings are far more equitable than AAP. 
[/quote]

PP.  Yes, I agree with you.  It worked when I was a kid, things started to change when I was in college and hopefully things will swing back that direction.  I like the very small GT for those who really need it.[/quote]

DP.  Agreed.  I'm the poster who grew up in FCPS when there was a tiny GT program.  No one resented those students because it was clear they were ACTUALLY gifted and needed a separate program.  Everyone else was put into flexible groups depending on their level, and no one was locked into any one group.  Students can improve and move up, or receive remediation, depending on their abilities in each core subject.  That was the way to go.  [/quote]

I was also in that tiny GT program and I teach for FCPS right now. The dynamics of the current classroom wouldn’t support that type of program anymore. There are kids, in one classroom, at seven different math and reading levels. To be able to put students in the groups that they “should” be in is essentially illegal nowadays.[/quote]

Have you read the entire thread?  This isn't at all what is being discussed here.  It's been repeated, over and over, that what FCPS needs are flexible groupings [b]*among the entire grade level team*[/b].  So Teacher A would take all the advanced math kids, Teacher B would take the grade-level kids, Teacher C would take the remedial group.  And so on for [b]all four core subjects[/b].  No one is talking about dividing up each individual classroom into multiple levels.

And if flexible grouping is "essentially illegal" nowadays (??), then assigning 7 yr. olds to either AAP or GE should absolutely be illegal.[/quote]

This is clearly written by someone who knows nothing about teaching/education. Why don’t you go to the national Department of Education website and do a little research on ability tracking. Once you’ve read up on that, then you’ll realize why FCPS specifically pushes more minorities into AAP. [/quote]

Doesn't work though[/quote]

I am new to the forum. Why does FCPS specifically push more minorities into AAP? Thanks.[/quote]

FCPS is an academic system; ie - a school system.

[b]FCPS has repeatedly stressed academics are not their first priority.  [/b]

Equity is the FCPS school board and superintendent’s first priority.  They stress this over and over.[/quote]

Citation? [/quote]

https://wpde.com/amp/news/nation-world/marginalization-is-driving-force-for-resource-allocation-in-virginia-school-district-fairfax-county-public-schools-equity-policy-thomas-jefferson-high-school-national-merit-recognition

Google the rest yourself.[/quote]
They are pushing for MORE kids to finish Alg 1 by 8th. They are promoting acceleration. 
[/quote]
And also removing acceleration for others aiming for Algebra in 7th. Equity. [/quote]

California attempted a [b]similar approach [/b]to “equity math.”  It was a monumental disaster, both in failing to achieve equity but also in failing to educate the most capable students:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/california-math-framework-algebra/675509/

Fairfax county’s school board and the superintendent are leading FCPS down a path to disaster.[/quote]

They were also pushing more kids to take Alg 1 in 8th? [/quote]
DP Heterogenous classes[/quote]

How is that relevant to what FCPS is doing? FCPS is pushing to have MORE kids take Alg 1 in 8th, not eliminating it. [/quote]
With E3, FCPS is making Grade 3 and Grade 4 math classes heterogenous; they are no longer offering separate advanced and regular math classes. CA also emphasized heterogenous classes. When you put a wide range of kids in one class, it makes it hard for teachers. They are not going to be able to successfully differentiate for everyone's needs, meaning they'll target instruction to the middle, shortchanging kids at either end. When they tried this in San Francisco, it widened the achievement gap, with kids at the lowest end of the spectrum hit the hardest. That is why some posters are questioning whether kids will be prepared for 8th grade Algebra in practice, if the method used to get there is E3's heterogenous math class approach. [/quote]

They did many other changes in SF. Not comparable. [/quote]
But heterogenous classes were one of biggest changes in San Francisco. And now FCPS is beginning down that path as well.[/quote]

Big scary heterogenous classes in early elementary! How will you sleep at night? [/quote]
Presently, FCPS is implementing heterogenous classes in third and fourth grade. The question remains as to whether FCPS will ultimately extend E3 (& its heterogenous classes) to 5th & 6th grade as well. [/quote]

E3 leaves the kids who will proceed to advanced math less prepared than the kids who have been taking advanced math since third. Currently advanced math students push a little a head every year so that 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th grade math are all compressed between 3rd and 5th followed by 7th grade math in 6th. The program works well for those who are in it (as reflected by SOL scores) and prepares them to either take Algebra or 8th grade math (confusingly named honors math 7) in 7th grade. E3 means that the kids moving to advanced math in 5th now have to do all of 5th, 6th, and 7th grade in two years. I'd guess that they know students will do worse (which will be reflected in SOL scores) and it will be used as an excuse to curtail advanced math in general in favor of preparing all kids for Algebra in 8th. [/quote]

Advanced Math did not start in 3rd at every school before E3 existed. [b]DS’s school said they had Advanced Math starting in third but the Teachers explained that the class was one large class with the Advanced Math skills taught to everyone.[/b] The only kids who were technically graded on the Advanced Math concepts were the kids identified for Advanced Math, There was not a separate group math group or class. They said this would allow more kids to move into the Advanced Math class in 5th grade, which was it’s own group of kids.

DS is in 6th grade this year. I[b] believe 4 kids in the Advanced Math group passed Advanced on the SOL last year[/b]. I have no clue if there will be a higher number this year. Parents at the school have said tha most of the kids in Advanced Math ended up taking Algebra 1 honors in 7th grade but I am doubting that will be the case next year because I have a hard time believing that they will jump from 4 to 12 or more passing Advanced on the SOL, and that is ignoring the IAAT.

No clue if this is COVID hangover, his group had online learning in 3rd grade and the math instruction was horrible. It is why we started RSM because there was no math learning going on in 3rd. It was embarrassingly bad. Oh so bad. I don’t blame the Teacher, teaching online when you have never done so before is hard and teaching math to 5 different math levels online at one time has to be horrible. We supplemented and are happy that we did so. [/quote]

Your school is proof that it doesn't work. Our non-center school has 100% pass rates for the advanced math students most years. [/quote]

PP said “pass advanced” which is different than just “pass”. [/quote]

The point still stands. Around half of the kids at our school who take the 7th grade math SOL get a pass advanced. Again, not a center school. 4 kids getting a pass advanced means that the material is not being taught effectively, probably because they are trying to make up too much ground too fast. Currently, it's three years to do four years of math and then 7th grade math gets the whole of 6th grade. That puts kids in a position to do well in either algebra or pre-algebra in 7th. Trying to cram three years into two and not giving the full year for 7th grade in 6th  sets kids up for failure in middle school [/quote]

My kids school is the one with only 4 Passed Advanced on the 6th grade SOL in 5th grade. I know that there are kids that were in Advanced Math that surprised their parents and who were struggling. We know the parents and the kids. Instead of keeping the class smaller, the school insisted that the class had to be the same size as the regular math class, probably because they didn't want the other class to be huge. There were kids who didn't belong in the class, at least that is what their parents said, and I guarantee that slowed down instruction. This year the Advanced Math class is larger then any of the other math classes by a good amount. About 1/3 of the 6th graders are in the class.

The parents of the kids who are struggling are fine with it because the overall class is better behaved then the other classes and the parents plan is to have the kids take Math 7 in 7th grade, maybe 7 Honors. It is a bit ridiculous.

Someone suggested pulling my kid out of school sinc ehe is bored. Last I checked school was mandatory. We don't have the money to pay for a good private school that would meet our kids needs and we aboth work. The good news is he enjoys extra STEM activities and attending math classes outside of school so that is the route that we are taking. I feel bad for the kids who are bored and whose parents don't want to provide enrichment or can't provide enrichment. I feel bad for the kids who start school behind and fall farther behind. Overall, we are sacrificing other kids education in the name of a social experiment that is failing. I have no clue why people think this is a good idea or that it is benefiting anyone.

[/quote]

The old model would have given the school time to course correct. The classes are as big as a regular math class- advanced does not mean a better teacher to student ratio. By the time they get to 6th, you have two years of data points to see if they are capable of the acceleration or not. That lets kids who can handle it get moved in and kids who can't get moved out. You're also dealing with an extra quarter or half year's worth of math being added per year and then a whole year being devoted to 7th which sets the kids up to do well in Algebra without rushing the content. Instead of having to push all of 5th, 6th, and 7th into 5th and 6th [/quote]

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