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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Crime, crime, crime......

DC suburbanites are shaking in their boots whenever they have to do a minor errand in DC with carjackings and auto theft up 100+% YoY. [/quote]

Lol no we’re not. [/quote]

And we really don’t trust people who lie and try to tell the world we live in a scary hellscape.[/quote]

The right is repelling independent voters with the desperate, intentionally misleading scare tactics that feel like a con.   Voters do not want to be played for fools.
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Both the right and the left are repelling independent voters. I’m tired of the rhetoric and vitriol coming from both sides. I’m an independent suburban woman and I’m appalled and pissed that I may find myself in a voting booth faced with choosing either Biden or Trump. Sh!t, if No Labels runs Larry Hogan I might vote for him just from the purely selfish perspective of making an affirmative choice rather holding my nose and picking the lesser of 2 evils.[/quote]

On the issue of abortion specifically, the right has lost the independent voters. Honestly I think some of it is was that they didn’t expect Roe to fall, and they didn’t expect to have to actually answer the question “so that ten year old you tried to force to give birth to her rapists baby”. In their defense I think they drank their own kool aid and believed it wasn’t a thing, so didn’t prepare.[/quote]

That does not make sense.  If they did not want Roe to fall, they would not have taken the actions they took.  They would pivot to a pro-choice position so they could be more competitive in elections.  They got what they wanted and if that results in loss of elections, so be it.[/quote]

Politically, it makes perfect sense, and is in fact exactly what happened.

Roe/"Pro-life" was an amazing political tool. You could foster loyalty and raise all kinds of money by talking about how incredibly "pro-life" you would be if only evil, slutty baby killing women and their feminized men would let you. But you couldn't because of Roe. I'm not sure Republicans writ large thought the Supreme Court would actually go through with it and reverse Roe. It sure seems like they were caught flat-footed because they definitely didn't have anything in place to counteract what happened.

Heck, even Donald Trump knows this is a losing issue. He's gone from saying women should be punished for having an abortion to calling it a losing issue.[/quote]

I'd agree that Roe falling has been politically difficult for conservatives, but I've also listened to commentary that it's a fair price to pay for saving lives.  It really depends how you see it. If you see Roe as protecting women, it's a travesty. If you see Roe killing babies, it's massive victory. If you see both as interests that need to be balanced, you're among the ignored and reviled majority. [/quote]

Roe was the balance.  And it will be again.  That is the majority position.[/quote]

Yes. That is exactly my point. Most people neither want 6 week bans nor a total lack of any abortion-related law. Most people see Roe as a reasonable balance.  But now it's gone, and neither party wants it back. The Rs want total bans or greater restrictions. And the Ds see Roe as needlessly repressive since it has guidelines for when abortions can occur. [/quote]

Not to mention that we should not take judicial decisions like this as law on important cases. It needed to be codified post Roe. Legislators dropped the ball long ago. Legislating from the bench is more ephemeral.

I agree neither side wants things to change because it gives them rallying points. [/quote]
 :roll:  Both sides are exactly the same!   :roll: [/quote]

Like one minute ago, Roe was great. Now if you say Roe had good parameters, you're a "both sides!" apologist.

I truly don't understand why you people aren't celebrating the fall of Roe since now states can legalize abortion at 8 months or whatever. [/quote]
Jesus. Nobody "celebrates" an abortion at 8 months. Have you read some of the stories of women who have gotten late-term abortions? They're heart-breaking. These are women who fully intended to have children until they learned the baby couldn't survive. https://www.pressherald.com/2022/11/01/maine-voices-our-state-is-not-immune-to-attacks-on-abortion-access/[/quote]

Yeah. Sometimes I wonder if these people who go on about late term abortions had seriously damaged mothers or sisters or wives.  I can’t imagine that anyone who has come into contact with normal women could believe there are hordes or women who want to abort healthy babies at 8 months.  And that there are healthcare providers who would do their bidding.  [b]You’d have to have a truly messed up view of women.[/b]  [/quote]

I'm going to push back against this. It is a messed up view, but it's an intentional us vs. them narrative ploy pushed by the right. It's a cover for keeping women in their place. The right has spent almost half a century demonizing women - don't know if you are old enough to remember the "partial birth abortion" hearings in the '90's or Sandra Fluke - but the idea is that nice/decent/good women have sex within the confines of relationships sanctioned by the conservative movement and the rest are sluts/low class. This works to facilitate women looking down on other women as well as men treating women that don't agree with the conservative interpretation as less than. You often see the cognitive dissonance break through when you see a woman crying on TV because she can't believe this is happening *to her.*

All that to say that I think it's important to learn where this is coming from so we don't play into the us vs. them game. Some of the people that believe this stuff, aren't evil. They are misled.

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At this point, they are willfully ignorant.  There is no shortage of available information about the complexities of human reproduction and all the things that go wrong.   If you don't want to be conned, get good information.[/quote]

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