Reply to Why is it so hard to accept that the students at better colleges are simply better students?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]1. Not ADD: While others may have been better students because they were neurotypical, that doesn't mean they are smarter. If a school only wants neurotypical students, then they can keep accepting 4.7 kids with 1700 SAT scores.

2. Cheating: My child spent four hours on a project when others spent 15 minutes cheating. So there's another reason. Some of the so-called "better students" are cheating.

3. Rich AF: Some of the "better students" are merely rich. Jared Kushner. George Bush (C Student at Yale) Do you think Ivanka Trump (Penn) could have been a "better student"? LOL!

4. Zero Support for College: My parents knew zilch about applying to schools and didn't help me at all. With zero support and an undiagnosed learning disability, I got decent grades, placed into gifted classes, and accepted into a state flagship.

I'm surprised you couldn't think of the reasons yourself, OP. 
[/quote]

You really think kids are ‘cheating’ themselves into top colleges?  You think you know they are cheating and their teachers, guidance counselors and the admissions officers do not?

OP has his point slightly wrong.  They may not be ‘better students’ because that is subjective and for everyone.  They are ‘better candidates’ because that is objective and set by the colleges and their admissions departments, and totally whatever they think that means.  As it should be.[/quote]

Actually, there is a lot more cheating going on than when we were in high school, especially since the pandemic. We who work in the schools are aware of it and doing what we can to stop it/convince them they're not helping themselves any in the long run. It's not easy when they feel such ridiculous pressure to have as high a GPA as possible and aren't focused on learning the skills as much as they should be.[/quote]

That’s irrelevant to the PPs claim kids were cheating themselves into top schools.  [/quote]

Do you really believe that there are so many kids who, at ages 14-17 are so mature and long-term goal focused that they can graduate with a 4.5 (no mistakes, high rigor), a 1490+, multiple sports, leadership positions, awards, volunteer work, and have such great personalities that they get glowing letters of Rec  that all the best schools can fill their freshmen classes with them?  I couldn’t hold my laughter writing that. It’s absurd.  Lots of lying, cheating, and unethical assistance going on from the kids and parents. And lots of pretending not to notice from schools- both high schools and colleges. [/quote]

Clearly you have such a child. Good for you. Sincerely. I’ve been teaching for 20 years, though, and I can tell you that’s not uncommon. I teach higher-level classes and I have taught many straight-A athletes / musicians / etc. with tons of volunteer hours and awards. I’ve watched some go to top schools. I’ve watched some go to state universities. I’ve watched a couple go to academies or straight into the military. We are fortunate that we have SO MANY high performing students in our high schools.

You’re welcome to laugh, I suppose, but that doesn’t change reality. Sure, a few have cheated their way through with some help from their parents, but that only gets you so far. It’s really hard to cheat on the SAT, AP, and IB exams. Most have graduated honorably after putting in a ton of work. I’m proud of all of them, and the institutions they attend for college are lucky to have them (no matter which institution that is). [/quote]

I actually don’t have such a child. I’m saying very few exist.  I didn’t say they cheat on SATs. I’m saying very few kids are the WHOLE package but that’s what it takes to get into the top schools.  It’s a show.  If you really work with teenagers, you know how complicated these years are emotionally.  Very few kids can really do it all without major helicoptering and help that crosses the line into cheating and lying and $$$ as the initial poster said.  I don’t deny that they work hard. It’s just not enough to be so all around perfect for four years of adolescence and that’s what it takes. [/quote]

I’m the PP and I stand by what I wrote. There are many, many high-performing students. None of them are perfect, nor does it take perfection to get into elite schools. I’m not sure why it’s a bad thing that there are so many good students?

On a related note, the best recommendation I ever wrote was actually for a B student who went to a very good school, one that DCUM would approve of. She was tremendous, with a work ethic and a positive demeanor that was such a pleasure to have in the classroom. Clearly the school saw in her the same thing her teachers did: a star. Was she perfect? No. Has she done very well at her college? Yes. (No, she was not an athlete, nor did she have a hook.)[/quote]

It’s not a “bad thing”. It’s a fake thing. I think I made that clear.

I love your story, but I have one too.  Despite an otherwise glowing transcript in every way complete with recs, I know a kid whose explanation for that one imperfect semester was that his dad committed suicide. More than one elite school didn’t think that mattered. You sound very nice and honestly a little innocent. It’s sweet (I’m not being snarky.) I have seen the inside of both competitive publics and privates - the lying, dishonesty, and embellishing that’s acceptable to many kids and their parents is disgusting. Colleges don’t seem motivated to do anything about it. They don’t even verify awards, jobs, non profits etc.  [/quote]

For what it's worth (not much), he likely would have been rejected even if that semester was perfect as well.[/quote]

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