Reply to Rant about Deal and their religious field trip

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I would tell my daughter that all religion is sh**ty to women. Do you want to go on these field trips and cover your head? As an atheist kids need to experience the crappiness of religion so they know what they’re rejecting.[/quote]

This is clearly a troll.[/quote]

What? I’m not a troll. There isn’t a religion on the face of this earth that believes women are equals to men. Even in Buddhism, one cannot reach enlightenment as a woman. [/quote]

Please. I'm a Catholic and I feel 100% equal to men. I've never ONCE felt "less than" during a Mass or any Church gathering. Ironically, it seems to be the self-identified athiests on this thread who want to define me as less than a man.[/quote]

What if you wanted to be a priest? Would you still feel equal to men in the Catholic Church?[/quote]

Sorry...a women would be out of luck.   Priesthood is only for men...still..in 2022.   That is the message catholic females get.[/quote]

Is this such a big slight? I also can’t access other professions because I lack physical strength or a particular proclivity toward a subject.

If you aren’t Catholic, are you the right person to be commenting on how the Church makes females feel? [/quote]

NP. You just made their point for them! Being a priest involves no physical and special skill other than a penis. Because the people with the penises said so. What's scary is how easily they've brainwashed you into believing that excluding women is just like those things.[/quote]

I’ve spent about 3 seconds of my life feeling upset about being denied the opportunity to be a priest. Heck, I’m more upset that being a woman means I’ll never earn that NFL salary. I’ve spent years actively participating in Masses and service to the community. I’ve taken on many leadership roles.  I’ve never once felt “2nd class.”

I’ve already been the target of insults on this thread. You claim I’m brainwashed. You don’t know me, nor do you know any of the nuances of my beliefs. [b]You are still comfortable making judgments about me[/b], and you are comfortable denigrating my personhood. How is that different than what you claim the Catholic Church does to me?

This entire thread is about whether people should explore new faiths in the name of education. I’ve done that. I’ve visited mosques, synagogues, Quaker meeting houses, etc. I have actually met people from many faiths. I would never stoop to insult them or their beliefs, the same way I have not insulted yours.

I will say one thing that’s on my mind: I wonder if you consider yourself open-minded. [/quote]

Yes, I'm judging you. How is that not clear to you?

Also, WTH does "are comfortable denigrating my personhood" mean???!!! That's a made up phrase. Get off the cross, sister.[/quote]

It is clear to me that you judge me. I stated that. Now you intend to insult my intelligence?

[b]Judging others is one way we keep others down, spread derision, and create barriers. [/b]By judging me, you illustrate that I am somehow not worthy of your respect or acknowledgment. (That is the very thing you seem to believe my Church does to me, which is where I find irony.) As a product of my upbringing and my faith, I make a strong effort NOT to judge. It is one of the many ways I show respect to those around me. Heck, it’s how I’ve shown respect to you here on this thread.

My intention is life is to make a positive impact on my surroundings, whether that be my workplace, my greater community, my church, and even DCUM. Your intention seems to be the opposite. I wish you well, and once again I am being sincere.

(And to bring this back to the topic of this thread, this is the very reason why I love the idea of this field trip. Let’s break down barriers caused by misconceptions and stereotypes.)[/quote]

Setting aside the irony of Catholics objecting to judgment, the bolded is one of the most oft used shields to protect bad actors from being assessed, judged or held to account. I judge neo-nazis. I judge pedophile priests and those that protect them. I judge Iranian "morality police" who round up women and occasionally kill the ones in custody. I judge african warlords who use systemic rape to eliminate enemy religious groups. I judge Theocracies that criminalize failure to adhere to laws that virtually imprison and subjugate women. I judge countries that allow mercy killing of victims of sexual violence. Your BS position assumes away all actions taken by any third party and requires others to take as face value that they are reasonable and grounds for accepting them as a reasonable stating point in a discussion of right and wrong.  [/quote]

[b]Yet you aren’t judging a country, organization, or community. You are judging ME, an individual. [/b]You don’t know anything more than what I have typed here, which isn’t much at all, but that seems to be enough for you. Surely you can see the difference.

I doubt you have room for genuine discussion with me, and therefore I’ll end this. Again: I wish you well.

[/quote]

A distinction without a difference. Someone has pounded into your brain these meaningless phrases that sound good until you think about them for mere moments. Movements and organizations are their memberships. When you choose to associate with groups and support leaders that engage in bad behavior, you are culpable. Seems to me like you are not actually willing to engage in any sincere discussion of elements of Catholicism that are regressive, subjugate women or create public health risks. Or do you believe there are "good" white nationalists? Or "fine people" in Boko Haram? Are we prohibited from judging them by association? I'm using extreme examples to illustrate how silly it is of you to try and suggest that you are a supporter and enabler of an organization but somehow you should escape judgment for your participation and enablement. By your inane construct no group would be culpable since they would all have plausible deniability as "individuals".

Your definition of "genuine discussion" seems to be things that don't question your beliefs or make you uncomfortable.[/quote]

Does “genuine discussion” have room for the good that Catholicism has done? Is it okay if I assume it doesn’t?

Your post simply made more assumptions about me. OF COURSE I see the problems with Catholicism, and OF COURSE I am willing to discuss them with others. I have already done so as a participant on panels and in workshops, and I am not afraid of being uncomfortable. Have you seen anything in my posts that would suggest otherwise? I don’t need a rude voice on the Internet to educate me about that which I already know. I see what you don’t see, however: the good work done by a community of people who put others before themselves. I find meaning here, and I refuse to discredit it.

If you read back through our exchange, I think you’ll see I’ve tried to engage meaningfully. I’ve been polite and I haven’t rushed to judgment about you. The problem with rash judgments is that you are so often wrong, as each accusation about me has been on this thread.

And now, I’m truly done posting. I suspect your opinion wouldn’t change unless you actually met me, when you’d realize I’m not a brainwashed monster.

[/quote]

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