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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]As someone who went to one of the "top five" for grad school, I would have to say they are all replaceable for undergrad.  God I loved flunking out all those wannabe pre-meds as a TA for Introductory Chemistry.  For all the difficulty getting into this school, the freshmen didn't seem that bright to me.[/quote]

Certainly, but the point of my post was about prestige/name recognition of the college, not the undergraduate student quality.  think everyone knows that Ivies and Stanford admit a bunch of undeserving legacy, donor, etc. kids who tend to make up the lower 25-50% of the admitted class's spectrum.[/quote]

What you're failing to acknowledge is that the Ivies, Stanford, Duke, MIT get the best of the best. So even the somewhat under-qualified URMs, legacies, rich kids are the best of the best. And they have a nose for potential. Kushner is an idiot, was bribed into Harvard ... yet he's essentially de facto POTUS right now making $100M a year.

The snapchat billionaire kid Evan seems to have had some string pulled to get him into Stanford (rich dad). He's worth $5 billion. Carly Fiorina's dad obviously got her into Stanford ... yet she still became top exec at AT&T and then CEO of HP.

A verifiable dumb as a brick URM student-athlete from our neighborhood went to an HYPS. 10 years later he's making big bucks in some vague "community outreach" role at a Fortune 100 company.

Our oldest son graduated from an Ivy. His college girlfriend was an awful engineering student; totally clueless. She shamelessly cheated her way all through the major and had him (and other boys) literally do her work. She's now a tech exec in SV making millions a year.[/quote]

Most of these connected people you are quoting as Ivy+ grads would have been successful whether or not they attended Ivy+.  Kushner, for example, has the family connection for that. He didn’t need Harvard to get to where he is today.

The question is, do Ivy+ people become successful because of Ivy+, or do they become successful irrespective of Ivy+?  If the latter, Ivy+ grads’ success is independent of their ivy+ connections. If they already come from power and influence, its their existing connections that’s propelling them to power and influence, not the other way around. [/quote]

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