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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The theory that the Sanskrit derived Indian languages, and some associated aspects of Indian culture, originated with an invasion, is still widely accepted in academia, and is not a racial theory.   [/quote]

Oh FFS.

From 2012.

[i]"[u]The collapse of the Aryan Invasion Theory[/u]
There is widespread misconception in India that all Western scholars support the Aryan invasion theory. Actually, it is becoming a minority view while the few still interested in ancient India have given up the AIT. Here is what a distinguished Greek scholar has to say.
Guest column by Nicolas Kazanas

Editor’s introduction: While a few diehards like Michael Witzel and Romila Thapar continue to propagate the AIT in different guises like the Aryan Migration Theory (AMT) mainly to save their careers and reputations, it has been given up by scholars worldwide. Its only use today is by Dravidian and other politicians (and politico-scholars) in India. But textbooks in India controlled by ‘Secular’ politico-scholars continue to propagate this divisive and degrading myth.

Kazans's book on Vedic civilization

The following survey article by the eminent Greek scholar of the Vedas and Greek philosophy Dr. Nicolas Kaznas gives an idea of the current trend in Western academia. Kazanas, born in Greece studied history and economics at the School of Oriental Studies in London, and Sanskrit and Indian languages at the Deccan College in Pune. He is the editor of Vedic Venues, an international scholarly journal published by Aditya Prakashan in New Delhi. Professor Kazanas is the director of the Omilos Meleton Institute in Athens, Greece. [NSR]

The Aryan invasion

The Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT) started in late 18th and early 19th centuries as an explanation of the caste system. Thus various European scholars postulated an invasion from non-Indic people (Egyptian or Mesopotamian) who conquered the natives: the invaders (with a strong priestly class) became the two upper castes and the natives the two lower ones (vaishyas and shûdras). This was refined and turned into a linguistic matter after Jones made his speech about the relation between Sanskrit, Greek, Latin etc. The invaders became IE and so was formed a general theory of Aryan or IE invasions to account for the Greek, Italic, Germanic people and so on, in their historical habitats.

In mid-nineteenth century Friedrich Max Müller turned the Theory into an entirely linguistic affair. He postulated certain dates for the composition of Indic literature and these became fixed in the minds of Indologists. Thereafter, all linguistic refinements for the IE tongues (Hittite, Greek, Baltic, Slavic etc) were worked out on this model, namely that there was a PIE language which mainly through migrations and invasions spread from an unspecified centre (but not India) and developed into the present different IE language including Old Indic (=Vedic Sanskrit) and Iranian (=Avestan and Old Persian).

At the turn of the 19th to the 20th centuries this view was turned by Europeans (later the Nazis) into a thoroughly racial affair ascribing to themselves superiority. This racial doctrine has now been abandoned and we have only the linguistic one.

In the 1920s were made the first important discoveries of the ancient Indus Valley or Harappan civilisation. This should have alerted indologists to the possibility that a large part of the Vedic literature was composed by this civilisation which I shall call hereafter the Indus-Sarasvati Civilisation or ISC in short, since most settlements were unearthed on or along the old Sarasvati river. This did not happen. Instead, indologists (mainly sanskritists) found in the ruins of this civilisation evidence that Indo-Aryans invaded and destroyed these cities just as the Rgveda says, according to their own interpretation, that Indra, the chief god of the conquerors destroyed the enemy purs ‘towns, forts’.

So a big paradox remained: on the one hand, there was Vedic Literature (a vast corpus) without any other cultural (=archaeological) remains to support it; on the other, a large culture unearthed by archaeologists but without literature despite its knowledge of writing! [Sic: This is widely known as ‘Frawley’s Paradox’ since the contradiction inherent in the position was first highlighted by David Frawley in the book Vedic Aryans and the Origins of Civilization by Rajaram and Frawley. NSR]

[u]Archaeologists find no invasion[/u]

However, in the 1960?s it was established by archaeologists that there had been no invasion , no wars, no violence, and that those towns had fallen into ruination because of natural causes, such as earthquakes which diverted the waters of some rivers and thus caused desiccation on a large scale. But the linguists persisted in their doctrine and the invasion became now “immigration”. But this produced now a second big paradox, i.e. the aryanisation of this vast area where toponymics (=names of rivers, mountains etc) are Aryan (=Sanskritic), not Dravidian or names from another language: small waves of immigrants, according to linguists, produced the SJ & IA C 2 aryanisation of a country which only invasion, conquest and coercion could have effected!

Section of the freshly demarcated Sarasvati in Haryana (pic)

Any impartial study of the facts, archaeological and linguistic, shows that there is no evidence of any kind to support the so called “waves of immigrations”. On their side, all archaeologists, Western and Indian, say emphatically that there is unbroken continuity in the development of the ISC from the seventh millennium to the sixth cent. BCE when the Persian incursions occur. There is no trace at all of any other culture intruding into the ISC.

(a) Anthropological evidence (cranial and skeletal) shows that there was no demographic disruption down to c 600, except perhaps for the period 6000-4500.

(b) Genetic studies now show that there was no inflow of genes into the Indian subcontinent prior to c 600. On the contrary there was flow of genes out of India and into the north-western regions.

(c) Max Müller’s dating of the Vedic Literature is based on fictions and has no basis whatever in reality. [Sic: His dating of 1500 BCE for the Aryan invasion was based on the Biblical superstition that the world was created 23 October 4004 BCE which he believed was ‘historical’. There still exist trees that are older. NSR]

The so-called linguistic evidence (i.e. isoglosses, loan-words etc) can be, and have been, shown to require no immigration. One eminent linguist at least demonstrated that the original homeland is Bactria which is adjacent to Saptasindhu, the Land of the Seven Rivers (=N-W India and Pakistan). [Sic: Land of the seven rivers. These are the five rivers of the Punjab— Satluj, Beas, Ravi, Chenab, Jhelum plus the Sarasvati and the Sindhu (Indus). NSR]

Positing Saptasindhu as the original homeland not only does not create problems but, on the contrary, dissolves all difficulties. For instance: (a) Vedic alone has dhâtus and on the whole invariable principles in generating verbs and their conjugations and nouns and their declensions etc. (b) Vedic has both augmented Aorist (=past tense) like á-dhât and anaugmented dhât from ?dhâ put’. Germanic has only an augmented and Greek only augmented.

(c) Vedic poetry has both strict metre and alliteration whereas Greek and Latin have only metrical verses and Germanic poetry has alliterative lines only without strict metre. (d) No two IE cultures ( e.g. Baltic, Celtic, Germanic etc) have any IE theonyms (=names of deities) to the exclusion of Vedic. On the other hand, Vedic has 20 theonyms of which Greek has , Germanic 8, Italic (=Latin) and Celtic 6 and the others even less.

It is agreed by all, including Western invasionists like Witzel, that the Rigveda hymns were composed around the Sarasvati area. But while they give a date of composition c 1200-1000, the available literary, anthropological and archaeological evidences indicate a date before 3500. Here I summarise broadly the most important points. [Sic: The 1200 BCE date was first postulated by Max Müller in the mid-nineteenth century, based as just noted on his belief in the Biblical date. There was no archaeology, radiocarbon dating or other tools at the time. Romila Thapar who holds on to the same date knows no science and is a Sanskrit illiterate though she writes about the Vedas. NSR]

How old is the Rigveda?

1. The Brhadâranyaka Upanisad has a list of 60 teachers. If we allow 15 years for each one, we obtain a period of 900 years. If the BU is of 600 BC, as the AIT scenario wants, the list takes as back to 1500. But none of the 60 teachers nor the doctrine ‘Atman is Brahman’ or ‘I am Brahman’ appear in the RV; the doctrine appears in the Atharva Veda in an approximate form. Given that the RV is linguistically many centuries earlier than the BU, the RV must be put at least 500-600 earlier, i.e. before 2000!

2. Linguistically the RV is many centuries older than the Brâhmanas and the Mahâbhârata. Palaeoastronomy (astrophysicist N. Achar) has shown that astronomical references in the Shatapatha Brâhmana are true for the date 3000-2950. Several astronomical references in the epic are true for 3100-3000! Thus the RV must be from about 3500 and before.

3. The Rgveda does not have many features that characterise the ISC and appear only later in post-rigvedic texts. Thus there are NOT –

(a) Ishtakâ the brick, mostly of raw mud, sometimes baked. This was one of the main construction materials in the Early ISC starting at about 3500. Prior to this, houses were fashioned of wood with wattle-and-daub, as described in the RV;

(b) Larger urban settlements in the RV as we find them in the ISC;

(d) Ruins or ruined towns;

(e) cotton karpâsa; [Sic: karpasa becomes ‘kapzum’ in Sumerian from which we derive the word kapda for cloth. NSR]

(f) silver rajata;(g) rice vrîhi;

(h) literacy ‘lipi, lekha(-na)’; [Sic: This is disputed. Writing may have been known in Rigvedic times but not widespread. Rajaram has found a deciphered

(i) artistic iconography (sculpture, relief, seals).

Bricks are mentioned first in Yajur Veda and extensively in the Brâhmanas. Silver appears as rajata-hiranya in the Yajur Veda; rice vrîhi in the Atharva Veda; cotton karpâsa, first in Baudhâyana's Sûtras; and so on.

4. The river Sarasvatî is praised as a mighty and all nourishing river in all the Books or the RV except the fourth. Even in late hymns such as 8.21 or 10.64 and 10.177 Sarasvatî is said to give wealth and nourishment and the poets invoke her as «great». In 6.52 Sarasvatî is «swollen by other (three or more) rivers»; in 6.61 she is endless, swift-moving, most dear among her sisters and nourishing the five tribes of the Vedic people; in 2.41.16 Sarasvatî is «best river, best mother, best goddess»; in 7.95.2 this mighty river «flows pure from the mountains to the ocean».

The river dried up around 1900 BCE. So the RV is referring to a condition long before the end of the river. Archaeologists and palaeohydrologists say that Sarasvatî flowed from the Himalayas to the ocean (in the Rann of Kutch) before 3800 BCE. Satellite photos and other analyses confirm now the route of the river from the mountain to the ocean. After this period some of the rivers feeding the Sarasvatî were, due to tectonic shifts, captured by other rivers (eg the Indus and the Ganges) and so this once mighty river weakened and began to dry up reaching its final desiccation c 1900 BCE.

Consequently the RV, or at least all those hymns that praise the Sarasvatî were composed before 3600 possibly before 4000. This date agrees with the building materials and techniques (the pre-brick phase) of the very early Harappan culture, as established by archaeologists and as described in RV. [Sic: N.S. Rajaram and David Frawley in their book Vedic Aryans and the Origins of the Civilization suggest that the composition of the Rigveda had been completed for the most part by the time of the famous Battle of Ten Kings, which they place c. 3700 BCE. Their compilation began about that time under King Sudas and more or less completed 600 years later by Veda Vyasa. NSR]

Conclusion: If the bulk of several hymns of the RV were composed c 4000-3600 the Indoaryans using the Vedic language were settled in Saptasindhu at that period. Whatever else might have happened before that period, the Indoaryans were by 1700 BCE thoroughly indigenous. [Sic: In particular, the Harappan people who created the civilization named after them were heavily influenced by the Vedic people before them. NSR]"
[/i]

There's more and a different pp gave you plenty of scientific and academic links, including DNA evidence.  But hey, what does that matter when there are still some people saying their had to be an Aryan invasion just because I say so.

Are there some in academia (many so called "Indologists" that still cling to this outdated theory? For sure.  Should we be highlighting their ignorance as a way to argue against the truth? No.

[/quote]

Dude, fucking THANK YOU.

Are you as creeped out as I am by how stubbornly racist this thread has been? I actually had no clue that they would be in such deep and stubborn denial.[/quote]

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