Reply to SCOTUS upholds college Affirmative Action

Forum Index » College and University Discussion

Reply to "SCOTUS upholds college Affirmative Action"

Subject:

Emoticons





More smilies

Text Color: Font: Close Marks

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][/quote]

For top national universities such as Berkeley and UCLA, national demographics should be used not regional. Nationally, blacks make up about 12% of the population. Incoming black student population for Berkeley was 2.8% for 2015 and the total black student population for UCLA is 4.0% which are very small compared to 10 to 12 percent for other top schools. This is with unofficial Institutional Affirmative Action at UCs despite the ban in place.  [/quote]

NP-No, you should use state demographics to compare state school enrollment.  State schools give state residents preference in admissions; Cal and UCLA are no exception.  The prior PP is correct, California's two flagship universities' Black population is aligned with the state's Black population.  [/quote]

Berkeley's 2015 incoming black students: 2.8%
Stanford's 2015 incoming black students: 7.8%

Both schools are located in California and both use holistic admissions program so what makes Stanford's black student number significantly higher (almost 3 times) than Berkeley number even though both are in California and Stanford is supposedly more selective school (the most selective in the country)? Berkeley is even cheaper for black students who are California residents. Shouldn't Berkeley's numbers be higher for blacks?

You guessed it. Affirmative Action program at Stanford where race preference is significant.  [/quote]

UC Berkeley in-state cost is 36k, stanford's is $62k. Like the Ivys on the east coast, Stanford is expects nada, zero, nilch in financial support for families earning less than 125k. Anybody who can get into Stanford can get into UCB.  The money is at Stanford. Berkeley doesn't pass out that kind of financial assistance. [/quote]

Nope. You have to pay about $17,000.00 for approximately $125,000.00 HHI. The financial aid doesn't do you any good if you are not accepted first. Your post still doesn't explain why significantly higher percentage of blacks are admitted to Stanford than Berkeley except for the racial preference difference.[/quote]

Your numbers aren't admits. They are enrolled numbers. Big difference. And 17k is still significantly less than 36k. Moreover, all things being equal, Stanford all the way. [/quote]

Most in-state students at Berkeley pay 0 to 30% of the total expected cost. Typically between $7,000 to $16,000 so you can't make the cost argument. [/quote]

That's not true. They end up paying for it later in the school loans. [/quote]

Not really:

"Did You Know?

Sixty-one percent of Berkeley undergraduate students who graduated between July 1, 2013 and June 30, 2014 graduated without loan debt (Federal Direct Subsidized/Unsubsidized Loans, Federal Perkins Loans, private loans). [b]The average cumulative loan debt for graduating seniors was $17,584. "[/b]

http://financialaid.berkeley.edu/tags/student-loans

17,584/4= 4.396 per year for 39% of the graduates. Not bad. That also works out to average of about $1,800 per year in student loan for all students! Not bad. Still making the cost argument?[/quote]

Hm, 77% of Stanford grads graduate with absolutely zero, none, nada debt. Yeah, I'm still making the cost argument.  No student loans. [/quote]

You forgot about the average student debt for Stanford graduate for 2015:

[b]The average per student cumulative undergraduate indebtedness for students earning undergraduate degrees between July 1, 2014 and June 30, 2015 and receiving financial aid:	$21,238[/b]
Percent of graduates with debt:	22% Of course more students at Berkeley will take out loans since more poor students attend Berkeley. For example, a student might borrow $4,000.00 in student loan for a given academic year even if that was the total EFC for the year. Berkeley has one of the highest Pell Grant recipient percentage in the country so yeah more of them will borrow. But they borrow less amount than Stanford students on average.

You conveniently left that piece of information out. Still making the cost argument? :D [/quote]

Yes. Seventy-seven percent zero debt. That leaves somewhere between one and twenty-three percent of students having debt from an Ivy. Some students have parents who can afford full ride. Btw, Berkely is 36k and not 17k.  The maximum pull grant is $5,775 per year. A student at Berkely is limited to the same amount as a student at UNC, UVA, UMD. It's federal money with a cap. Without scholarships and other grants, students rely on loans. Due to very large endowments, Stanford and all the other IVy schools don't have the limits of the UC system. Given the opportunity to attend either Stanford or UC anything, I would send my child to Stanford. That is, if money was not an issue. [/quote]

17K is the average student debt for Berkeley students NOT 36K. For Stanford, it's 21+K in student debt on average. 36K is the total cost of attendance. Giving up on the cost argument?[/quote]

Options

	Disable HTML in this message
	Disable BB Code in this message
	Disable smilies in this message

Review message

Search Recent Topics Hottest Topics