Reply to Family of Four on 90k - An Upper Middle Class Existence

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]13:39 -- I agree that historically, the U.S. has been a place that over time people have been able to work their way up the economic ladder through hard work and education.  But I think we're slipping away from that.  I worry that my generation (millenials) will see less economic mobility than prior generations due to a combination of increasing higher education costs and high rates of unemployment for recent grads.  Also add in inflation for housing, groceries, healthcare, etc.

Of course some people are lazy and will blame their lack of success on the system being rigged.  But I also genuinely think it is harder to climb the SES ladder than it was for past generations.  Income inequality is only getting worse in this country and I find it a little smug when older people can't imagine why 20 and early 30-something's find it hard to follow in their footsteps with the house, kids, savings etc.[/quote]

I am a Gen X-er, just cracked into the 40's, I am not *that* much older. When I graduated with a tech degree in the late 90s, we were hit with the tech bubble burst, followed by a stressful recession. The generation before me can talk about how unemployment cracked over 10% in the early 80's. My point is every generation can talk about some economic issue. What's been annoying is that the millenials are thus far the only generation to blame their lack of success on external factors, along with a sense of entitlement. This is not just me talking here, but a general trend of your generation.

Yes, tuition costs are higher now in absolute terms but it's the rate of increase that is most indicative of "who had it worst". Take a look:

http://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/average-rates-growth-published-charges-decade

As you can see, the annual tuition increases were worse for my generation and even Gen-Y than yours. You don't hear us complaining about it. Okay, I did actually complain about it - I remember going to the MD general assembly and protesting tuition increases together with a bunch of other students. But the point is we didn't let that be an excuse for excessive student loan debt or not being able to get a good education. One significant difference, however, is that student loans and other forms of financial aid are far more plentiful now than it was when I went to college. It was rare for college kids to rack up huge debts because it was tougher to get loans. Also, fewer of your contemporaries are working their way through school, as shown here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/06/how-many-students-can-actually-work-their-way-through-school/258836/

I recruit/hire people for my company and we have plenty of junior level positions that we simply are unable to fill. When my wife and I started working in our early 20s, we understood that our strength was not experience, but youth and energy. We were willing to work hard, travel, be willing to put in some strange hours because the older guys with family weren't. Instead of eager and energetic go-getters, we get a bunch of laid back slackers with no ambition and who think their degree should automatically guarantee them a $60k salary.[/quote]

1) There are less students working b/c of cuts in Federal work study over the 2000s, as well as the growth of unpaid internships which became a necessity to get a job after college.
http://www.poynter.org/news/mediawire/103805/colleges-universities-brace-for-big-cuts-in-work-study-programs/

2) Yes, there was high growth in tuition over the 80s, then 90s, than the 00s. But this growth compounds, so the aughts do have a harder time than you did.  And there was a shift to more loans rather than direct aid in the 00s, which is not captured in your sticker-price tuition chart
http://www.sltrib.com/home/2023423-155/story.html

[b]And you came to this country with a positive net-worth and apparently no family to support in their old age?  You are already *way* ahead of 95% of US college graduates.  It's well known that getting a degree overseas is the way to go b/c you don't pay any tuition.

if you only had $2k to you name, how did you come up with a $60,000 downpayment on your $300,000 rowhouse?[/b][/quote]

You are making a lot of (incorrect) assumptions here.

You do understand that there are several people on this thread. The Gen X pp above, is not the same person as the PP who came to the US with $2k (me).

If you think that you get free degrees and don't pay any tuition overseas then you are willfully ignorant. You realize, you just made a wide sweeping statement about every other country in the world. And where was their any mention of parents or in laws who may or may not need support?

As for, how I bought a house -- the same way that you did, no doubt. I arrived, I found a job and made sure that my expenses were less than my earnings and I saved. More specifically, I lived in a shared house for 5 years where the rent was split between me and the six other young people I lived with. I found a temp job paying $15 an hour when I first arrived, and a professional job at a non profit soon after. I continued to live frugally. My downpayment was about $15k, a large chunk of which came from the only Christmas bonus I have ever received. I did 5 percent down and had a second loan (HELOC) to avoid PMI. House cost somewhat less than $300k, I was rounding up. Closing costs were rolled into the loan. When I bought the house I was earning about $70k. It's not possible to buy a house as soon as your arrive in the country even if I'd had tens of thousands of dollars. You need a US work history and a credit history, neither of which I had. [/quote]

Sigh, so I like how you constructed a strawman argument about the tuition. I'm assuming your tuition was free, paid for by a generous government or parents, and that you haven't been sending money home to your family, because you skimmed right over that.

And yes, many immigrants come from Europe, Asia (China & India), without any student debt.  Compared to the US? Don't be ridiculous.

I see you did the low-money down route, so basically you just leveraged yourself to the hilt and could have easily ended up underwater.  You gambled and won the housing lottery, just accept your good fortune.[/quote]

So I'm curious PP - what is your story? Why so bitter?  Are you unable to buy a house? [/quote]

so???[/quote]

Sorry, some of us work during day. You know and have parents.

I came from rural America, went to good college and studies engineering not that different than PP.

I was foolish about money in that went into engineering and did what I love rather than go into investment banking or consulting. This is what I am bitter probably, b/c my experience is from rural America where homes cost less than cars.  About $40k student loans.   We are still worried about supporting parents who have no retirement except their house, a failure to launch sibling, and a sibling with serious mental health issues.

I make same as the PP, around 90k, and we've live in cheap apartments since college (mice, no parking, load neighbors, etc) but definitely not urban pioneers b/c safety is a concern. I'm a country boy and the big city can be scary ;)

We have saved up (no cable, no smart phones until just this year, cheap cars we run to the ground), and just bought a small townhouse in the shady part of a good school district. Our priorities were a short commute, good schools, low monthly cost.

My point for PP was that even though she bought in a sketchy neighborhood, and seems to be infazed by what she assets are low ranked schools, the appreciation in her house is mostly from the bubble. Not her sweat equity or business acumen. It is unlikely to happen again where someone can buy a $300k place in ft totten and it will be worth $1m by 2020 (which is what she experienced). That sort of massive wealth creation gives her a lot of options that most people earning 90k dont get.  It would change our lives if we had a chance like that, but we can't take the same gamble she did. [/quote]

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