Reply to Surgeon only gives Tylenol after surgery

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]With knee replacement surgery they tell you to get ahead of the pain. 
 My DH tried to skip the heavy duty pain meds and it was not pretty for a few days.

He definitely needed the stronger drugs.[/quote]

This.  I've had a lot of different surgeries, and my pain management needs have been quite different in each case.  My ACL/MCL/meniscus repair was the worst, and I definitely needed the oxy for about 4 days post-op and multiple nights after that.  My bilateral mastectomy wasn't too bad, and I was fine with gabapentin and tylenol/ibuprofen.  They might have given me a vicodin or two while I was still in the hospital, but nothing to take home after I was released.  Laparoscopic surgeries were trivial, and OTC meds were completely fine.

OP didn't tell us what the surgery is, so we have no idea whether the doctor is being reasonable with the pain meds or whether he's some sort of purist.  I would run far from any orthopedic surgeon who thinks OTC meds are sufficient.   [/quote]

You think doctors don't know this? The fact that OP didn't say, and hasn't come back to clarify, strongly suggests they already know they're on some nonsense. [/quote]

OP probably saw the people ganging up on her and accusing her of being addicted. It is a fact that some doctors are extremely rigid when it comes to pain management. Check out r/medicine and see the debates among physicians about this. Besides not knowing what the surgery entails, we also don't know whether OP has undergone any surgical procedures before.[/quote]

OP was probably trolling, like most of the people who post here. Either that, or they wanted "support" and bounced when they got a perspective check instead.[/quote]

The perspective that we should tough out surgical pain versus using an FDA-approved medication that is indicated for surgical site pain? There is zero reason [b]to go back to biting sticks and rolling around in pain [/b]because of some junkie somewhere.

My body, my choice. [/quote]

But you know this isn't what happens to patients after standard surgeries in Sweden, Germany, France, and the UK, right? What makes Americans react so very much more poorly to the same procedures?[/quote]
What are your sources for this claim? From a quick review:

The US and Canada have much higher post-surgery use than Sweden, but the US and UK have seen a similar and substantial drop in opioid prescriptions. France has seen an uptick in prescription opioid use, and Germany still has opioids prescribed somewhat regularly as analgesics:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2749239

https://www.ofma.fr/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Chenaf_et_al-2018-European_Journal_of_Pain-vf.pdf

https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/21/2/180

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.3233/JRS-220040[/quote]

Sure. Same data as you. From your first link:

[quote]In this cohort study, more than 70% of surgical patients in the United States and Canada filled opioid prescriptions after 4 surgical procedures compared with only 11% in Sweden. [/quote]

The exact same surgical procedures, but Swedes require 1/7 the opioid prescriptions post-op as Americans. Why is that?[/quote]

Yes, the comparison with Sweden was noted in my reply.

You’ve also referred to Germany, France and the UK. The latter has similar stats to the US, as does Canada, which you’re notably excluding.

Germany and France also utilize prescription opioids, with the latter seeing an uptick, as noted in the respective link.

Do you have links to studies suggesting a large current disparity between the US use of prescription opioids post-surgery compared with the countries you mentioned other than Sweden?[/quote]

I never said the rest of the world had a complete prohibition against opioids.

Sure, there's an "uptick," but there still is a broad difference. You are STILL avoiding the question -- why are they not needed elsewhere, but here we're presumably "writhing in pain and biting on sticks" like animals if we don't get them?[/quote]You’ve been making sweeping assertions that the US hands out prescription pain meds too easily compared to specific other countries. The research shows it’s not that clear or simple, and when asked to back up your claims for Germany, France, and the UK, you can’t/won’t.

Again, recent research shows Canada and the UK have similar usage to the US of prescription opioids—it also has noted that the US and UK have seen dramatic drops in those prescriptions in recent years. France has actually seen an uptick. Germany still dispenses them for severe chronic pain.

Sweden also has not legalized cannabis recreationally and only very strictly for medical use. Their alcoholism rates are also lower than those of the countries you specified. So, they appear more conservative regarding regulated substances overall, culturally and legally.

This is a poor topic to argue based on conjecture, because pain itself is so subjective.[/quote]

The question itself is simple: why are Americans (and sure, Canadians) using so many more opioids post-operatively than are routinely used in other industrialized countries? And you are doing everything you can to avoid it.

[/quote]Waiting for a link to data backing your conclusion that the US, Canada, and UK—who have similar Rx opioid usage—use “so many more opioids post-operatively” than “other industrialized countries.” [b]Which countries other than Sweden would those be?[/b][/quote]

You already cited Sweden. Let's look at France. But let's also see if you really are willing to address the data, or if this was all diversion from answering the question.***

[quote]You haven’t provided a single citation supporting your assertion. [/quote]

:roll:

Here is a French link:
[quote]RESULTS
A total of 25 American patients (50%) consumed narcotics preoperatively vs 4 French patients (8%). Only 22% of Americans were opioid naïve. [b]Postoperatively, all French patients had a narcotic-free prescription while all American patients were prescribed a significant amount of narcotics (617.04mg ± 345.16mg MED)[/b]. One American patient returned to the emergency department for inadequate pain control while none of the French did. French patients were never prescribed steroids but had systematic nonsteroid inflammatory drugs while 41.4% of American patients were prescribed postoperative steroid tapers following a postoperative telephone call.

CONCLUSIONS
[b]For identical surgeries, all American patients were prescribed postoperative narcotics while none of the French were.[/b] Cultural beliefs from both patients, physicians and the industry probably represent the most significant barrier against the implementation of a narcotic-free culture in our practice. [b]Reducing narcotic prescriptions in our practice is not only feasible but also highly desirable.[/b]

[i]The Spine Journal[/I], Volume 19, Issue 9, Supplement, September 2019, Page S149
Differences between postoperative narcotic prescriptions in outpatient lumbar spine surgery between the United States and France
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S152994301930508X
[/quote]

***
So, once again: do you think people in Sweden and France are just left "writhing in pain and biting on sticks," or are they just superhuman uberpeople, or what? What is the difference?[/quote]

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